You're most unpopular Trek opinions

[steveman]

greenmystik said:

steveman said:
because he was never the "company man" Picard (or Kirk) was

I don't think anybody has ever accused Kirk of being a "company man." He's always referred to as the "maverick" or "cowboy" of the 23rd century.

I probably should explain my original point a bit better...

What it comes down to, I think, is the importance Starfleet held to both Kirk and Picard. Starfleet was important to Kirk because, quite honestly, he would've gone stir-crazy without it. Starfleet was important to Picard because he knew that he had essentially dedicated his life to it. Simply put, they were both tied to Starfleet in meaningful ways.

As for Sisko, however, Starfleet always seemed to be more of a means to an end more than anything else. They gave him a ship, so he used the ship; they gave him a crew, so he used the crew. I really see him less as a Starfleet captain than I do as a guy who simply wanted to get things done -- anyhow, anyway. In the Dominion War, I think he would've found success, whether he was with Starfleet or not.

Additionally, it's no secret that Sisko wasn't a Starfleet "lifer." Whenever his career in Starfleet was up, he made it quite clear that he would be perfectly content with building a house on Bajor and spending the rest of his life there.

Could you see Kirk or Picard doing that? I know I couldn't. Starfleet was just too important to them. It was a part of who they were. Kirk needed it to keep feeding his unrelenting inner-drive. Picard needed it because of the sense of purpose it gave him. Sisko, on the other hand, was about more than Starfleet. He had other priorities in life. And because he did -- because he was "above" the uniform, not a "company man" in either the sense of Kirk or Picard -- that, in-universe and out, I don't think he will be remembered as fondly as they were.

Simply put, when I see Kirk or Picard, I see a uniform. And it's easy to heap adoration on that, because their accomplishments while wearing that uniform will always be on the forefront. But when I see Sisko, I see a man. And it's harder to heap adoration on that, if only for the fact that it entails infinitely more things. He wasn't just a captain. He was father. How do you quantify that?

 

[ThankQ]

Great thread idea, ktanner3.

ktanner3 said:4.) The Next Generation has not aged well compared with the original show and DS9. It's characters are so P.C and snobbish that they're very hard to like those first few seasons.

You know, even though TNG is far and away my favorite Trek, I've noticed this too, lately. Ten years ago, I wouldn't have guessed it to be the case. But I still think TNG gets really good once Picard comes into his own. What gets me now, going back to your aging observation, are the sets. Sometimes I can spot more evoking cheese in TNG sets than I can TOS sets.

 

[Alisium]

7) Starfleet is a military organization. A badly run military organization, but military nonetheless.

Jellico was right.

9) Riker is a putz who should have never gotten command of USS Titan after having previously turned down at least three other opportunities for command.

YES YES and YES!!!!!

Let the realist reign supreme.

1.) Generations was a horrible movie.

2.) TNG (as I see it now) was more often than not as bad as VOY.

3.) TAS and ENT are the best versions of Trek.

4.) Riker was the worst first officer ever bar none.

5.) Wesly wasn't that bad and Wil Wheaton is actually pretty cool.

6.) I hate technobabble.

 

[Saxman1]

1. Seasons two are three of Voyager are a lot worse than seasons two and three of Enterprise. In fact, Voyager is a lot worse and inconsistent than Enterprise (ducks)....

2. Generations was one big downer and Kirk's death was horribly done and unnecessary.

3. Data's death in Nemesis was horribly done & unnecessary

4. Having Shinzon look nothing like Picard turned Nemesis into camp.

5. Despite some odd sets, TNG hasn't as aged as much as TOS

6. While still magnificent, many dated elements of TOS (the sets, the music, some laughable over-acting) have turned many eps into unintentional camp

7. DS9 will always be underrated by the general Star Trek community, even though it is not perfect and is to date, the last great Star Trek series

 

[TedShatner10]

Saxman1 said:
1. Seasons two are three of Voyager are a lot worse than seasons two and three of Enterprise. In fact, Voyager is a lot worse and inconsistent than Enterprise (ducks)....

Season Three of Voyager after it's slightly meh second season was truly terrible, which made Seasons Four & Five vastly better in comparison. Enterprise is not overall better than Voyager though...

2. Generations was one big downer and Kirk's death was horribly done and unnecessary.

Here's another unpopular opinion - Generations was very mediocre, far more mediocre than TMP supposedly was, many classic episodes of VOY & ENT were vastly better, and it was in many ways less entertaining than Nemesis.

 

[candida]

My most unpopular trek opinion is that the rules governing apostrophes should not change in thread titles.

 

[Broccoli]

1) That the current route of Trek Literature is too fanboyish and, honestly, not that great.

 

[nerfherder]

Hmm.. Unfortunately, most of my unpopular views make it seem I don't like Trek. Not true. But, here goes:

1. The Trek universe is by-and-large bland, homogeneous, and dull (A galaxy peopled everywhere by politically-minded humanoids?);
2. There is no absolutely great Trek series;
3. Every series deserves praise for its absolutely great episodes;
4. The need to maintain canon saps Trek of its creative potential;
5. A reboot (post TOS) would be cool - I'd like to see the galaxy rewritten without evil, superiorly-teched, imperialist baddies dominating every quadrant;
6. Nemesis sucked less than Insurrection;
7. DS9 is overrated, and not on a par with TOS or TNG;
8. Despite being a mighty military opponent for the Federation, the Dominion - as a rather generically evil adversary bent on domination for its own sake - was not very interesting;
9. TMP was the best movie;
10. The few times Trek was being "PC" (like advocating racial equality, the protection of endangered animals, or preserving the ozone layer) it was actually doing a good thing, and future Trek would do well to promote a similar agenda.

let the stoning commence...

 

[JM1776]

Your most unpopular Trek opinions

I've got a bunch:

• Deep Space Nine, though solid, is wildly overrated ... and doesn't hold a candle to the series upon which it was clearly based, Babylon Five.
• "In the Pale Moonlight" is fairly solid dramatic television, if somewhat predictable ... but it's terrible Star Trek.
• Shatner is at once one of the best and worst actors ever seen in Trek. When kept in rein by a competent, strong-willed director, he delivers consistently solid, often excellent, occasionally brilliant peformances. Once his ego has run rampant, he's a caricature of himself.
• The creeping immorality poorly disguised as "more realistic Trek" that was featured in Deep Space Nine and Voyager is a major reason the franchise is in decline: It didn't bring on enough new fans, and alienated quite a few traditionalists.
• (What I believe was) Avery Brooks' agenda to directly address "black issues" was entirely inappropriate to a series set when such prejudices had been eliminated. "Far Beyond the Stars" and "Badda Bing Badda Bang" failed for me on those levels. [Whenever Benjamin Sisko was channeling Avery Brooks, my bullshit detector went off, full force.]
• Brooks himself delivered the occasional good performance, but was for the most part largely unconvincing as Sisko.
• The fact that Kira had no doubt killed numerous innocents during her time as a resistance fighter was given convenient short-shrift so as to make her more sympathetic. In addition, her transition from grubby little terrorista to sleek, politically adept X-O seemed unbelieveably smooth to me.
• Seven of Nine's transformation from drone to supercilious sexpot would have been far more interesting over a season (rather than an episode) or two. Her quasi-magical Borg nanopowers were curiously impotent or irresistible as required by that week's plot.
• Much of the modern Pocket-produced fiction is not at all compelling. The Voyager Relaunch is downright moronic, while that of DS9 is an overwritten, barely-competent continuation, rather than some sort of literary masterpiece commanding slavish devotion.
• The Final Reflection is still the best Trek novel ever published ... and it ain't even close.
• Kathryn Janeway was the most inconsistently-written character in the history of Star Trek. She should obviously have been court-martialed on her return to the Alpha Quadrant.

 

[Orac Zen]

Re: Your most unpopular Trek opinions

nerfherder said:
8. Despite being a mighty military opponent for the Federation, the Dominion - as a rather generically evil adversary bent on domination for its own sake - was not very interesting;

That's another "unpopular" opinion I share. One of the reasons I don't find DS9 particularly compelling is that the Dominion are a one-dimensional enemy with a rather pathetic motive for conquest (it basically amounts to little more than "The solids are mean to us 'cos we're different, so let's kill 'em!"). However, as someone pointed out in a recent thread in this forum (I'd like to be able to give credit where it's due for this observation), they were somewhat entitled to wage war on the Federation given that part of the Federation's response to the Dominion requesting they get out of their territory was to fly around the Gamma Quadrant in a cloaked ship.

JM1776 said:
* Much of the modern Pocket-produced fiction is not at all compelling. The Voyager Relaunch is downright moronic [...]

Agreed. The Voyager relaunch books are little more than licenced fanfic - and badly written, poorly characterised fanfic at that.

We will continue to agree to disagree about Janeway, though, JM.

 

[Whoa Nellie]

Saxman1 said:
4. Having Shinzon look nothing like Picard turned Nemesis into camp.

:thumbsup: Absolutely!!! I agree completely. I've always thought Stewart should have played both roles. If you're going to have an evil clone of Picard then have an evil clone of Picard!


I'll add my own to the list.
In TNG canon,Vash, not Beverly Crusher, was Picard's main love interest.

Warmest Wishes,
Whoa Nellie

 

[Freakness]

i am not!

(seriously, is it really THAT hard to use apostrophes correctly?)

as for the unpopular opinions:

"Profit and Lace" was pretty good.

Neelix was an engaging character.

Kes was way more interesting (and more attractive) than Seven.

 

[ThankQ]

Freakness said:

Kes was way more interesting (and more attractive) than Seven.

I'll drink to that one.


1. All the "Klingon Heritage" episodes in TNG were garbage.

2. The last have of ENT Season 2, save two clunkers, is Trek at its best.

3. T'Pol/Archer would have been more interesting and dramatic than T'Pol/Trip.

4. Tom Paris is one of the top 5 in the list of main cast members.

5. DS9 is the worst of the series. Too much Ferangi.

6. TNG, DS9, VOY and esp. ENT should have had more Q, more Q, more Q.

 

[T'Cal]

benny said:
Insurrection is not that bad of a movie. It has some gorgeous location shooting, a pretty good score and one nearly tear-inducing moment (Geordi on the hill watching the sun with Picard).

Great scene in a pretty good movie. I also liked the battle scene with Riker in command and Georde as his de facto XO. I really thought they were setting things up for the next movie in which Will would get his own ship and take Georde along as his Number One. As we all know from NEM, Riker did get his fourth pip and the Titan, and Georde stayed with Picard.

 

[cbp44189]

I like Enterprise.
T'pol was hot, and did a good job.
Starfleet is a military organization.
MACO's deserve a place onboard starships
More enlisted characters are needed, Starships cant operate with just officers..
I hate the whole saucer seperation thing.

 

[Mike Have-Not]

I like when Shatner and Brooks go "over the top" with their acting.

I like Ferengi comedy episodes.

I don't think Seven of Nine was THAT hot... (I like Kes better...)

I liked Doctor Pulaski. Better than Dr Crusher, even...

 

[JD]

Freakness said:

as for the unpopular opinions:

"Profit and Lace" was pretty good.

Neelix was an engaging character.

I think I would agree with you on those two. I know alot of people hate Profit and Lace, but I actually think it was pretty funny. It's just one that you have to remember to not take seriously.
As for Neelix, I've always wished that they had explored his past more.

 

[Harvey]

*Enterprise is a far, far better series than Voyager managed to be with twice the number of episodes. It was also a pretty good series in its own right. If Stargate Atlantis can somehow deserve a fifth season, so did Enterprise.

*The Ferengi comedy episodes were wonderful (Profit and Lace, perhaps, excepted )

*Masks and Genesis are two of the best episodes of TNG

 

[indranee]

The Inner Light rates at best a 6 out of 10.

 

[Kegek]

11. Keiko was a cool and likeable character. No problems whatsoever.

12. 'Beyond Antares'... is... ugh.