You Suck And So Does Your Idea, Loser....

[Gene Hendricks]

Posted by Thalek:The best advice is also the hardest to take: ignore them.

Exactly. I know at TotSF, we're doing this for us. If other people like it too, that's great! If some people hate it, for whatever reason, too bad for them. We have fun making these episodes and that's all that really matters. As long as you like what you're doing, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks.

- Gene

 

[K'riq Sa]

Thanks, very good advice one and all. I'll try to keep things in perspective, it's just that the conviction in their hatred is so absolute. I guess I wasn't prepared, and I really mean prepared for it. Yes Thalek my old friend, I now am beginning to understand the depth of the pro and con comments you have fielded here on this board.








offically,

K'riq Sa
Minister of the Church of Misspent Youth

 

[Equinox]

Posted by ChiefKyle:
Let it slide and laugh it off. we found out that, as much as we love to visit them, Message boards (all of them, not just one or the other) make up an extremely small percentage of viewership. Most people watch a webisode and move on. But others may write a thesis on one small part of a show. Its not just fan films. profesional productions get the same thing. The only difference is, people responsible for fan films are easier to reach and many times fan productions make decisions based on what a small very vocal group write and post in places like this. There is a certain amount of empowerment doing so.
During the run of 'Enterprise' some cast members got caught up in the negative coments from message boards. Even when things were going ok it was reflected online in a negative light.
People come here many times to argue. Certainly the idea of star trek (to get along) does not happen very often. I never have beat up on another production or publication whether its profesional or amature. hundreds of Hours of hard work and dedication go into making a product. Other people may be able to justify doing it, but I cant stand in judgment of anothers sweat and hard work. Goofs, bad dialog, not so perfect effects and so on just make things fun to watch.
When the day is over as long as I know my kids are proud of me and I have done right, to the best of my ability, to the people I touch everything else does not matter (IDIC)

Let it slide

So what I get from all of this is that you believe people on messageboards shouldn't be listened to, because they are just a small minority of viewers.

Okay....that makes NO sense, and I'll tell you why.

Even if only 1 out of 10 viewers is a big enough fan to write on a messageboard, that means at least 10% of the possible viewers are talking about what they like and don't like. While 10% may not sound like much, keep in mind that for TV shows or movies that have MILLIONS of viewers, thousands and thousands of fans on messageboards can make a serious dent in profitability for any production.

Plus, keep in mind that if a show can produce, say, 10% of its fanbase on messageboards, at least the writers/producers know that is a DEDICATED viewer base that won't instantly turn their back on something if they have one or two crummy episodes. Average viewers of something don't care enough about a series to TRY and talk to other fans about it and Average fans don't care enough about a series to continue watching if week after week episodes are crappy or a couple of horrible shows screw up the whole series.

I'll give you an example: I used to love MOnk on USA, but I was never a hardcore fan. I never bought the DVDs and I never went to a Monk messageboard. In Season 3 when the writing got sloppy and a main character just dissapeared for no reason, I threw my hands up - the show, after that, simply stunk. Now I went to messageboards for the series after that fiasco out of curiosity's sake and you know what I found? Fans who hated the confusing parts of Monk just like me. The difference between us though? They continued to watch the show while I haven't seen it since the summer of last year. Does that mean they will tolerate crappy episode after crappy episode forever? No, but true fans will try their best to talk amongst each other in hopes that *maybe* someone important might drop by and hear what the real problems are.

Producers & writers avoid messageboards because they don't like criticism of any sort. They only want praise, but often you will not find much of that on a messageboard. Show praise comes in the form of good ratings - criticism comes in the form of AWFUL ratings AND suggestions on how to fix the show.

I think personal-attack criticism is cheap and juvenile (unless the target's personal lifestyle/personality plays a big role in the show's production) but I think all other "negative" talk on Messageboards is constructive critism. I'm a graphic designer and I always hear constructive criticism about what I make. Some I shrug off but most vocal individuals have a reason why they are saying something...not just to bitch.

So if a fan film maker doesn't like being told their show is absolute garbage (*ahem* New Voyages or that God-awful Star Wars fan film that was being played up like crazy in mid 2005, anyone?), then they should just show it to all their friends who helped make it. If even official Trek episodes and moves aren't immune to criticism, why on EARTH would a fan film be?

People who complain about people complaining should hear themselves whine...It makes NO sense.

 

[Anna Yolei]

Posted by K'riq Sa:
Oh, my god... I have gotten a few of these now and let me tell you it hurts. I don't know these people from Adam and they come at me with some of the most vile and thoughtless comments. I understand you can't please all of the people, and you will always get people who think their personal Trek shows were the best and everything else sucks. But this "All trek sucks and you're a Loser just like it" comments really get to me. I would like to know how other people handle this...



noticeably,

K'riq Sa
Minister of the Church of Probable Cause

Are you talking about people in real life? I myself have never had a problem with that (Then again, I don't advertize the fact that I'm a Trek fan), but that's just as stupid as those Trek fans who like to insult the fans of Trek shows they are not particularly fond of. Or in the case of the ENT forum, flaming and trolling because someone disagrees with your ship preference.

And to stuff like that, I have to just at it, because petty crap like that is not worth the heaache.

 

[carlosp]

Posted by Equinox:
So if a fan film maker doesn't like being told their show is absolute garbage (*ahem* New Voyages or that God-awful Star Wars fan film that was being played up like crazy in mid 2005, anyone?), then they should just show it to all their friends who helped make it. If even official Trek episodes and moves aren't immune to criticism, why on EARTH would a fan film be?

No question -- if you put something "out there" you'd better be willing to take criticism. Even (or especially) harsh criticism. But criticism is a far different thing than abuse. During my time at Hidden Frontier I read every review -- good, bad and abusive -- and I tried to learn from it. I hope I have. And I'll take those lessons to my new work at New Voyages. And I plan to learn from all the criticism I'll get there, too. Decrying abusiveness, however, is not whining. It's holding critics accountable for what they put "out there," too.

Regards,
/carlos

 

[chrinFinity]

The main reason people do this is out of herd mentality. If one idiot thinks that doing or saying a certain thing will please 95% of the rest of the idiots, then he will do that thing just for the positive attention.

It's a lot easier (according to most of the kids I grew up with) to go "huh huh star trek's gay huh huh" than it is to say "That is not a show that appeals to me, but allow me to present to you one that does, that we might open a dialogue for the free exchange of ideas" because the second thing would require more conscious thought and effort than most people are capable of.

 

[K'riq Sa]

Criticism, I can take. Constructive criticism I take to heart and use it if it's a better idea than mine, I don't have an ego problem. For instance, when someone remarked that the name Nightblade was probably not a good name and he lined out the reason why he thought that way and I agreed with him and changed the name to the SS New York. But the other stuff is something else altogether and I don't think criticism is the name for it.



post humoroursly,

K'riq Sa
Minister of the Church of ill Repute

 

[Yassim]

If it helps, remember that everyone from Shatner to Wheaton, from Meyer to Braga "sucks", according to some expert on this board somewhere.

If nobody thinks you suck, then you probably do.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Posted by Carabimero:
I have never heard of anyone who has made a fan film making the transition to being a working professional in the industry.

The early Starlog's often covered fan and student films and film shorts made by people eager to work as professionals in the film industry. I'm thinking of "The Wizard of Speed and Time", "Superbman: The Other Movie" - and even the first version of "Dark Star" (before they added the elevator shaft scenes and improved SPFX).

What about Greg Jein, who did models for "Flesh Gordon" as his first pro assignment? They all have to start somewhere.

It's especially true of model makers and miniaturists. (And more recently, many of the pro model makers working on "The Lord of the Rings", who started out as Star Trek and SF Media fans of New Zealand. I know, because I met some of them years ago when they were nobodies.)

 

[CaptJimboJones]

Posted by Equinox:

So what I get from all of this is that you believe people on messageboards shouldn't be listened to, because they are just a small minority of viewers.

Okay....that makes NO sense, and I'll tell you why.

Even if only 1 out of 10 viewers is a big enough fan to write on a messageboard, that means at least 10% of the possible viewers are talking about what they like and don't like.

I think 10% is an enormously high estimation. At most a few hundred people were regular posters on the Enterprise forum, for example, while the show had several million viewers even at its lowest point. Because the sample is so small, and entirely self-selecting, I'd garner that most statisticians would say it's insignificant.

 

[Argus Skyhawk]

Posted by Equinox:
Even if only 1 out of 10 viewers is a big enough fan to write on a messageboard...

I suspect the number is closer to 1 out of 1000.

 

[Yassim]

This got talked about recently in TrekLit.

You can't use the people here as a guide of what "normal" people think, not because the numbers are too small, but because the people here don't represent the viewers at large.

For a simple example, DS9 wins every poll on this board, but clearly was not the most popular version of the franchise. For some reason, internet fans tend to like DS9. Or put another way, all those TNG fans out there don't feel the need to vote in internet polls the way Niners do.

There are lots of other examples -
- the Voyager books get reprinted and reprinted because they sell so well, but they get panned on the TrekLit board.
- TMP has as many fans as TWoK around here, but TWoK was far more popular with the public.
- lots of people here have an opinion about who T'Pol should be sleeping with, but most viewers don't really care (okay, I'm guessing here...)

My point being, the opinions expressed here do not represent the opinions of normal people.

So when you get a bad review, just realize that it's a freak giving it!! :thumbsup:

PS - all the above is given as a Niner and fellow freak.

 

[K'riq Sa]

Yeah, I understand that. And of course I have taken it all in stride. But there's just something about someone saying that they are not happy with your work that I think gets to you. I mean you put a lot of love, time, and stuff into doing a project.


just me-ly

K'riq Sa
Minister of the Church of Love You Long Time

 

[Zman1]

Posted by K'riq Sa:
Oh, my god... I have gotten a few of these now and let me tell you it hurts. I don't know these people from Adam and they come at me with some of the most vile and thoughtless comments. I understand you can't please all of the people, and you will always get people who think their personal Trek shows were the best and everything else sucks. But this "All trek sucks and you're a Loser just like it" comments really get to me. I would like to know how other people handle this...



noticeably,

K'riq Sa
Minister of the Church of Probable Cause

preferably with a meqleth... or a batleth


naw seriously look at the sorce would you take advice on how to fix an automobile from a 5 yearold whos experiance lays in machbox cars and vroom sounds? then why take critisisem from fools with no knowlege of trek or anything else? constructive critisisem comes from thoes with wisdom fool spot the destructive kind.

 

[Nomad V]

Your success will be your vindication. Until then let the actions of do-nothings drive you to bigger and better things.

 

[Thalek]

Posted by Zman1:


naw seriously look at the sorce would you take advice on how to fix an automobile from a 5 yearold whos experiance lays in machbox cars and vroom sounds? then why take critisisem from fools with no knowlege of trek or anything else? constructive critisisem comes from thoes with wisdom fool spot the destructive kind.

One of our biggest "attack critics" IS a professional in the industry, if not very high in the hierarchy (a stand-in who has also had a few minor speaking parts).

Unfortunately, even before he got vicious, his advice wasn't very practical, since it amounted to "increase your budget" and "get rid of all the amateurs in the production".

And most of his criticisms are actually based in a vendetta, rather than reflective of his true beliefs. I never hear him criticising other fan films for use of copyrighted material, only us. But is there a Trek fan film out there that doesn't use copyrighted material?

Most of his other complaints amount to comparing us unfavorably with professionals. He takes GREAT exception to any comment that we might be as good as a professional in any capacity or sense. (Pick just about any Ed Wood movie and then compare us to professionals, eh? How 'bout most of those schlocky "sci-fi" films of the 50s?)

So, given that his particular motive is NOT to help improve us, but rather to make us look bad (or worse, if you already don't like what you see), I'd say this is one of the rare exceptions to the "professionals rule" on advice. [wry smile]

And I'll immediately grant that this IS an exception. The professionals with a genuinely professional attitude are either diplomatic, or silent. They don't chase you all over the net to counter-act any positive publicity you get. If they deem you unworthy of their notice, they don't spend thousands of words telling you so. [grin]

That kind of hate is hard to ignore since the whole point is to throw it into your face, but at least trying will make you feel better about yourself. Fortunately, that kind of hate is also fairly rare.

 

[K'riq Sa]

Yes Thalak I got that flashback. I still have some crap that guy spewed about HF, in my guestbook. How sad he puts a lot of time and effort into hating you guys and I mean a lot of time and effort.



expendably,

K'riq Sa
Minister of the Church of the Lost and Found

 

[Thalek]

Posted by K'riq Sa:
Yes Thalak I got that flashback. I still have some crap that guy spewed about HF, in my guestbook. How sad he puts a lot of time and effort into hating you guys and I mean a lot of time and effort.



expendably,

K'riq Sa
Minister of the Church of the Lost and Found

He desperately needs to get a life, and therapy. But if it kept him to busy to bother with us any more, I'd settle for him just getting a life.

Fortunately, I live in a new place now, and the doors are locked, so I feel safer.

 

[dmac]

I think it's importaint for all those who enjoyed my effort, take the time out to explain how badly I suck at doing it.

 

[BillJ]

I think it's importaint for all those who enjoyed my effort, take the time out to explain how badly I suck at doing it.

This thread is nine years old.