Spoilers X-Men: Apocalypse - Grading & Discussion

[The Borgified Corpse]

Why didn't they bother giving any of the actors aging make-up to make them look like they had aged AT ALL since First Class?

I don't think 20th Century Fox wants us to notice. They know that only a handful of hardcore fans will care. For everyone else, they just want the characters to look as young & hip as possible.

MCU did fine with Peggy Carter's aging.

Agreed. Actually, the aging work that they did on her in both Ant-Man and Captain America: The Winter Soldier is spectacular. But then, she was only a single minor character who only made a brief appearance in both films.

Also, Peggy was being aged 40+ years, not 20. It's generally noted that it's easier to make someone look elderly than it is to make them look middle aged.

Would it still be OK if we took it completely out of the context of the movie? Would you be OK with it if it was something like a beer add where the only context for it was a fully clothed much bigger guy choking a naked woman?
That's my thing with this. It's not bad if we look at it with the added context of who the characters are, and what is going on in the movie, but not everybody who sees the billboard on the side of the street is going to know all of that, to many people all they are going to see is just this one image, with no prior knowledge of the characters, or that it is from a fight scene in the movie.

Outside of the context of it being a scene in a movie, it ceases to be a movie poster. At that point, I'm not even sure what we're talking about.

It wouldn't make any sense as a beer ad because it has nothing to do with beer.

Context matters. The entire argument is about context. The ones who are complaining about the poster are trying to hijack its context for their own purposes. They're trying to take an image of a superhero fighting a supervillain and reframe it for an argument about real-life violence against women. I would like to think that most people walking down the street would recognize the difference. (And the people that don't recognize the difference are stupid and their opinions shouldn't be counted anyway.)

I'm not saying it's a great poster. Apparently, it has not been 100% effective as an advertising tool for generating interest in the movie since some people have misinterpreted it. But I kinda get the sense that most of the people that are protesting against it are deliberately misinterpreting it and that they're the kind of people that just like to be protesting against things.

 

[Anwar]

That wasn't makeup. That was CGI.

Fine, but there was nothing stopping FOX except cowardice and laziness.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

Not really. As it's already been pointed out, the scenes with Peggy were short and small parts over the film. And for just one person. Doing it for several cast members throughout the whole film something entirely different, nor is it guaranteed that it would as good as it was for Peggy the whole time.

The obvious answer was not to do the time jumps in the first place.

 

[Tosk]

That wasn't makeup. That was CGI.

CG in WInter Soldier, make-up in Ant-Man.

 

[JD]

I don't think 20th Century Fox wants us to notice. They know that only a handful of hardcore fans will care. For everyone else, they just want the characters to look as young & hip as possible.



Agreed. Actually, the aging work that they did on her in both Ant-Man and Captain America: The Winter Soldier is spectacular. But then, she was only a single minor character who only made a brief appearance in both films.

Also, Peggy was being aged 40+ years, not 20. It's generally noted that it's easier to make someone look elderly than it is to make them look middle aged.



Outside of the context of it being a scene in a movie, it ceases to be a movie poster. At that point, I'm not even sure what we're talking about.

It wouldn't make any sense as a beer ad because it has nothing to do with beer.

Context matters. The entire argument is about context. The ones who are complaining about the poster are trying to hijack its context for their own purposes. They're trying to take an image of a superhero fighting a supervillain and reframe it for an argument about real-life violence against women. I would like to think that most people walking down the street would recognize the difference. (And the people that don't recognize the difference are stupid and their opinions shouldn't be counted anyway.)

I'm not saying it's a great poster. Apparently, it has not been 100% effective as an advertising tool for generating interest in the movie since some people have misinterpreted it. But I kinda get the sense that most of the people that are protesting against it are deliberately misinterpreting it and that they're the kind of people that just like to be protesting against things.

I get what you're saying now. We were talking about two different things, I was just talking about the general idea of what was being seen, not necesarilly about the movie.
I thought you were saying there was nothing wrong with an image of a man choking a woman like that, not matter what the context was.
I can even kind of see why Fox would have gone for it, since it is a very striking image involving two of the movie's most visually interesting characters.

 

[Gaith]

Context matters. The entire argument is about context. The ones who are complaining about the poster are trying to hijack its context for their own purposes. They're trying to take an image of a superhero fighting a supervillain and reframe it for an argument about real-life violence against women. I would like to think that most people walking down the street would recognize the difference.

You're right, context matters. And the key context here is that maybe small children, especially young girls, walking down a public street shouldn't have to see an image of a guy choking a woman in the service of selling a comic book movie.

 

[The Borgified Corpse]

You're right, context matters. And the key context here is that maybe small children, especially young girls, walking down a public street shouldn't have to see an image of a guy choking a woman in the service of selling a comic book movie.

Oh great, the "won't someone please think of the children" argument.

Admittedly, as a movie poster, the image is more realistically violent than the average action movie poster. On that front, you have an argument that the poster may not be suitable for young children in general.

However, I refuse to accept a purely gender-based argument against it because any such argument automatically assumes that all women are weak, helpless victims. Such an assumption runs completely contrary to my personal experience in general. It is also demonstrably false in this instance, since we've seen on multiple occasions that Mystique can hold her own in a fight (although she is, admittedly, probably out of her league against Apocalypse but so is everyone else).

 

[dahj]

since we've seen on multiple occasions that Mystique can hold her own in a fight

That's not what that poster depicts though.

 

[ichab]

Oh great, the "won't someone please think of the children" argument.

Admittedly, as a movie poster, the image is more realistically violent than the average action movie poster. On that front, you have an argument that the poster may not be suitable for young children in general.

However, I refuse to accept a purely gender-based argument against it because any such argument automatically assumes that all women are weak, helpless victims. Such an assumption runs completely contrary to my personal experience in general. It is also demonstrably false in this instance, since we've seen on multiple occasions that Mystique can hold her own in a fight (although she is, admittedly, probably out of her league against Apocalypse but so is everyone else).

My feelings as well. My objection is based on the violence in the image, not the genders involved.

 

[Gaith]

Yeah, a superhero movie poster in public places featuring choking isn't in great taste in general, but the genders do make it worse.

It is also demonstrably false in this instance, since we've seen on multiple occasions that Mystique can hold her own in a fight

So if parents of young children haven't educated them on a series of PG-13 movies dating back to 2000, it's their own fault for grossly sheltering said kids?

And if women who've experienced male harassment who happen to not have bothered to watch this particular series of flicks are made uncomfortable by said poster, it's their fault for not knowing Mystique can also, in other contexts, kick ass?

We're talking public spaces here. Let's all aim for some dignity.

 

[JD]

^Exactly.

 

[Anwar]

So basically, if the poster had shown Apocalypse standing triumphant over both male and female characters, it would be better?

 

[JD]

Maybe? It depends on what exactly the image is.

 

[Tosk]

And if it were the same poster but had Apocalypse choking Xavier instead?

 

[Mr Light]

Then it'd be baldist. ;-)

 

[Gaith]

How about a nice goddamn Drew Struzan painting? Is that too much to ask?!

 

[The Old Mixer]

Seen completely out of context: "Hey, that chick is blue!"

 

[DonIago]

^Actually, that reminds me that one of my pet peeves about the films, especially once the existence of mutants is generally known, is the way everyone always seems revolted by Mystique's appearance. I mean, sure, it's unusual, and I wouldn't blame anyone for being surprised/shocked, but I don't think it's horrific or anything.

Then again, I suppose it could be argued that the people she tends to shapeshift in front of are exactly the kinds of people who'd tend toward revulsion.

 

[Tosk]

For the most part, people seem to be reacting to the fact that she's a mutant more than they are saying, "Eww gross, a blue girl!"

 

[M'rk son of Mogh]

Why didn't they bother giving any of the actors aging make-up to make them look like they had aged AT ALL since First Class?

Even simpler answer: They're mimicking the comics, where few people care that most characters now look identical to 20, 40, or 60 years ago.

As in, does it really change the story they want to tell any? So why waste the time and money. Because it would literally be a waste.