Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical?

[Therin of Andor]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Luckily, McCoy was able to save her life and reconstruct a face for her.

"Saavik, have you changed your face?"

"It's still regulation, Admiral."

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Why is that, CommishSleer or were you just kidding?

I thought James Cromwell was perfectly cast to play an older Glenn Corbett.

I am serious. Its just the change in characteristics I didn't like - not the appearance. From good ol' American hero to washed up selfish drunkard.

I had no problem if it was a different character altogether. Oh no I sound like the people who hate Cumberbatch's Khan.

Since FC was such a good movie, it doesn't really matter and I'm not going to complain about it for 20 years - just now and then

Had they gotten Tom Hanks as initially intended, he would have been a lot closer to the TOS Cochrane I guess.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

NuSpock and nuKirk don't really look like the originals but at least they try at some of the mannerisms. And basically they've got an excuse - its a reboot.

The other cases have an excuse too: It's not real, they're hiring actors to pretend to be these people, and they'd be pretty foolish if they made physical resemblance a higher priority than talent. Obviously the ideal is to find someone who's as close a physical match for the other guy as possible (or close enough to pass as family if you're casting a sibling) while also being the best actor you can find and the one who has the best chemistry with the other guy. But the odds of getting both of those things at once are extremely low, and if you have to choose between resemblance and talent/chemistry, obviously resemblance is going to take a back seat. Hell, I take it back. That's not even an excuse, because there's nothing to excuse. It's just basic, common-sense good casting. Resemblance is nice, but it's not more important than getting the best performer.

Although, granted, sometimes there can be too little resemblance. I definitely would've preferred Hanks to Cromwell as Cochrane.

 

[Yeoman Basha]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

What are they going to do, put blue contacts on Shatner? I can't imagine the studio would want to put hazel contacts on Pine.

Actually, my blue eyes are more hazel these days. They've been slowly changing.

And maybe Retinax 5 allergy can affect eye colour?

Hmm. Well, at the age of 50 my blue eyes are still blue. But everybody's different.

I'm sure the writers could come up with some gobbledegook explanation for why Jim Kirk's eye color changed and why his height shrunk by three inches. But to me, it would feel forced. It's all make-believe but I want to be able to suspend my disbelief while I'm watching the film. I can do that as long as Pine and Shatner don't appear in scenes together.

And I also agree about Patrick Stewart and Tom Hardy, which was one of my problems with that film. It's like they got an actor who was about the same height and build as Patrick, then shaved his head and figured: Hey, they're practically twins! Forget the fact that the two men's faces were completely different and their voices sounded completely different too.

We all have our little pet peeves and things that take us out of the story. This is one of mine.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

I have Hazel eyes. Yet people often think they're blue or brown. It's all a trick of the light.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

And I also agree about Patrick Stewart and Tom Hardy, which was one of my problems with that film. It's like they got an actor who was about the same height and build as Patrick, then shaved his head and figured: Hey, they're practically twins! Forget the fact that the two men's faces were completely different and their voices sounded completely different too.

As I said, they did put a prosthetic nose and chin on Hardy to increase his resemblance to Stewart. So they weren't as careless about it as you imply. They did the best they could with the face they had.

But, again, would you have been happier if they'd cast someone who looked just like the young Stewart but couldn't act worth a damn? What's more important, appearance or performance?

 

[BillJ]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

I thought Tom Hardy did a great job with the material he was given. He wasn't the weakness in Nemesis, the script was.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Although I joked with my family while watching that Hardy didn't much resemble Stewart (who does look like 20something Patrick Stewart? 70something Patrick Stewart. The poor guy was born old, I think), I was able to suspend my disbelief and enjoy Nemesis. Likewise Nimoy and Quinto's Spocks, despite one having earlobes and the other not (and FWIW, I'm almost certain they built up Nimoy's nose in the meeting-of-the-Spocks at the end of STXI, so he would closer resemble Quinto)

Slightly off-topic, I'm curious how X-Men: First Class will handle Ian McKellon and Matthew Fassbender in the same movie as Magneto, when they look and sound absolutely nothing alike.

 

[SonicRanger]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Yes. They are the same person.

Everyone in the nuTrek universe is the exact same person as in the oldTrek universe and looks identical to them, including Chekov.

Except Chekov is the one we know is a different age, about 4 years older in nuTrek... but since his birth is after the timeline change, that's allowed. But that means nuTrek Chekov is not actually oldTrek Chekov. A different kid with the same name born to the same parents but at a different time.

 

[BillJ]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Yes. They are the same person.

Everyone in the nuTrek universe is the exact same person as in the oldTrek universe and looks identical to them, including Chekov.

Except Chekov is the one we know is a different age, about 4 years older in nuTrek... but since his birth is after the timeline change, that's allowed. But that means nuTrek Chekov is not actually oldTrek Chekov. A different kid with the same name born to the same parents but at a different time.

Mama and Papa Chekov were convinced the universe was ending when they heard about what happened to the Kelvin and decided to get "busy" five years earlier.

 

[Christopher]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Except Chekov is the one we know is a different age, about 4 years older in nuTrek... but since his birth is after the timeline change, that's allowed. But that means nuTrek Chekov is not actually oldTrek Chekov. A different kid with the same name born to the same parents but at a different time.

Either that, or he was lying about his age in "Who Mourns for Adonais" for some reason. Or he was using some other planet's years rather than Earth years.

Although I'm inclined to agree with the "cross-temporal older brother" theory, because Chekov Prime never seemed to be anywhere near as much of a genius as his counterpart.

 

[Set Harth]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Slightly off-topic, I'm curious how X-Men: First Class will handle Ian McKellon and Matthew Fassbender in the same movie as Magneto, when they look and sound absolutely nothing alike.

It'll all be explained by Magneto's machine. It explains Tyler Mane and Liev Schrieber. It can explain everything!

 

[Yeoman Basha]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

And I also agree about Patrick Stewart and Tom Hardy, which was one of my problems with that film. It's like they got an actor who was about the same height and build as Patrick, then shaved his head and figured: Hey, they're practically twins! Forget the fact that the two men's faces were completely different and their voices sounded completely different too.

As I said, they did put a prosthetic nose and chin on Hardy to increase his resemblance to Stewart. So they weren't as careless about it as you imply. They did the best they could with the face they had.

But, again, would you have been happier if they'd cast someone who looked just like the young Stewart but couldn't act worth a damn? What's more important, appearance or performance?

Regarding the prosthetics on Hardy, fair point. They did try. It just didn't work for me.

On your second point, I never would have written the clone story in the first place, unless I could get Stewart to play a double role, which wouldn't have worked there.

I agree that acting ability is most important, but for me, when you're talking about two characters who are supposed to be closely related or worse, literally the same person, the appearance of the actors matters a great deal.

The Nemesis screenplay is riddled with so many problems it's hard to know where to begin, but I don't believe the clone story was necessary or even added that much to the story beyond the cliche "I'm you're evil mirror" trope. Shinzon could have been Picard's son and it would have had just as much dramatic effect, if not more.

 

[Yeoman Basha]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

I have Hazel eyes. Yet people often think they're blue or brown. It's all a trick of the light.

Well, any color is going to be affected by how the light is hitting it. But using that as a rationalization for how Pine's bright blue eyes could be confused with Shatner's dark hazel eyes is just...pushing it. At least for me.

If having two actors who look different with different eye color playing the same character doesn't bother you, great. Unfortunately it bothers me. For me, it's like seeing a character who's flying through the air and I can see the wires holding him up. It's like a giant neon flashing sign announcing that this is all fake and it takes me out of the story. But that's me.

 

[Harvey]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Although I'm inclined to agree with the "cross-temporal older brother" theory, because Chekov Prime never seemed to be anywhere near as much of a genius as his counterpart.

I just see it as the screenwriters returning to the original character concept of Chekov being smart enough that he was a protégé of Spock.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Just as I never ever believed that Sybok was Spock's brother let alone a son of Sarek.

Technically, he was his half-brother.

--Sran

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

Although I'm inclined to agree with the "cross-temporal older brother" theory, because Chekov Prime never seemed to be anywhere near as much of a genius as his counterpart.

I've always thought Chekov was "book smart" but didn't have much in the way of common sense. Taking that into consideration, it's not hard to see how he managed get himself into so many trouble spots.

--Sran

 

[Nerys Myk]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

I have Hazel eyes. Yet people often think they're blue or brown. It's all a trick of the light.

Well, any color is going to be affected by how the light is hitting it. But using that as a rationalization for how Pine's bright blue eyes could be confused with Shatner's dark hazel eyes is just...pushing it. At least for me.

If having two actors who look different with different eye color playing the same character doesn't bother you, great. Unfortunately it bothers me. For me, it's like seeing a character who's flying through the air and I can see the wires holding him up. It's like a giant neon flashing sign announcing that this is all fake and it takes me out of the story. But that's me.

My real rationalization is it's just a movie and it shouldn't matter. Just as the discrepancy between Quinto and Nimoy's earlobs, Saldana and Nichol's builds or Pegg and Doohan's hair lines should't matter.

You might want to avoid watching the James Bond series. They've had six different actors playing him over the course of the series and none of them look alike! Also Roots, LeVar Burton and John Amos, who play Kunte Kinte at various ages, look nothing alike. Ever notice that Kirstie Alley has green eyes and Robin Curtis has brown eyes?

 

[Christopher]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

If having two actors who look different with different eye color playing the same character doesn't bother you, great. Unfortunately it bothers me. For me, it's like seeing a character who's flying through the air and I can see the wires holding him up. It's like a giant neon flashing sign announcing that this is all fake and it takes me out of the story. But that's me.

You'd think the fact that you're watching it projected onto a flat screen, or that the characters have cameras pointing at them without being aware of it, or that there's music playing in the background without the characters noticing that either, or that a lot of them look and sound like actors you recognize from other roles, would be enough to announce that it's fake.

Just watching TV or movies at all, or watching a play, or reading a book, or experiencing fiction in any form, requires some suspension of disbelief. You always know that it's not real, but you choose to play along with the illusion. You exert your own imagination by choosing to ignore the evidence that it's illusory. Just like you did when you were a child and pretended your backyard was a jungle or an alien planet or whatever.

 

[Yeoman Basha]

Re: Would Spock Prime think Kirk and a young Kirk Prime look identical

If having two actors who look different with different eye color playing the same character doesn't bother you, great. Unfortunately it bothers me. For me, it's like seeing a character who's flying through the air and I can see the wires holding him up. It's like a giant neon flashing sign announcing that this is all fake and it takes me out of the story. But that's me.

You'd think the fact that you're watching it projected onto a flat screen, or that the characters have cameras pointing at them without being aware of it, or that there's music playing in the background without the characters noticing that either, or that a lot of them look and sound like actors you recognize from other roles, would be enough to announce that it's fake.

Just watching TV or movies at all, or watching a play, or reading a book, or experiencing fiction in any form, requires some suspension of disbelief. You always know that it's not real, but you choose to play along with the illusion. You exert your own imagination by choosing to ignore the evidence that it's illusory. Just like you did when you were a child and pretended your backyard was a jungle or an alien planet or whatever.

...Or hearing a laugh track when you're watching a sitcom. Of course it's all fake, but most of us are still able to "tune out" a lot of this stuff and still lose ourselves in the story for an hour or two. And at least for me, the ability to do that, to suspend my disbelief for a little while is important.

Just because it's all fake doesn't mean that the filmmakers shouldn't make some effort to keep it "real". We all know that the Enterprise doesn't really fly through space, but that doesn't mean we want to see the wires holding up the model as it flies by. And when we're watching Klingons, we don't want to see the prosthetics coming off the actors' faces. There are limits to how "fake" a movie or TV show can get before it starts to lose the audience, a line that cannot be crossed without going into parody.

We all have different ideas about where that line is. For me, seeing two actors who obviously look (and sound) very different -- but I'm supposed to believe they are clones, or the same character at a different age -- crosses that line.