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Would like to see Enterprise come back…

There’s a huge difference between showing a bunch of ENT Easter Eggs in a comedic animated show, and bringing back an entire unpopular live-action show from 20 years ago just to retcon what happened to one of the characters. I mean, does Trineer even care about Trip anymore?

You say that, but in a sense PIC Season 1 dredges up events from an unpopular movie from 20 years ago just to retcon what happened to one of the characters...

I want to add, I think the likelihood of anything happening in terms of ENT is a big fat zero, but there is a great deal of precedent for Star Trek going for the obscure fan service.
 
You say that, but in a sense PIC Season 1 dredges up events from an unpopular movie from 20 years ago just to retcon what happened to one of the characters...

I want to add, I think the likelihood of anything happening in terms of ENT is a big fat zero, but there is a great deal of precedent for Star Trek going for the obscure fan service.
Indeed, and prior to SNW or PIC I would have been far more skeptical. I would put me more in the cautious camp now, with the possibility of something coming from ENT with all the dives in to previous episodes. I don't think we will get a full on Enterprise reunion, and certainly not one that will satisfy fans, but I don't think it will be ignored either.
 
You say that, but in a sense PIC Season 1 dredges up events from an unpopular movie from 20 years ago just to retcon what happened to one of the characters...

I want to add, I think the likelihood of anything happening in terms of ENT is a big fat zero, but there is a great deal of precedent for Star Trek going for the obscure fan service.

Actually, PIC was based less on Nemesis and more on Star Trek ‘09, which was the most popular Trek movie of all time.
 
Actually, PIC was based less on Nemesis and more on Star Trek ‘09, which was the most popular Trek movie of all time.

The Romulan stuff for sure, but there’s a whole B4/Data thread in there too for Nemesis as well as a Voyager character and some pretty deep cuts with characters like Hugh, Icheb and Maddox. I think PIC Season 1 uses the destruction of Romulus as a springboard for its' setting, but with all the synth stuff, the Borg and Riker/Data... PIC has it's feet firmly in TNG and related works. I wouldn't say it's based on ST09, rather that it uses an isolated element of 09's plot to further the TNG timeline.

There’s a reason I can’t watch Picard with my wife and that’s that I’d have to create some kind of Trek TNG/Voyager primer to get her through the experience. It's not a show for the uninitiated which makes me think that, yeah, people do care about the old shows and characters from them. If Hugh can make a comeback, why not Trip Tucker?
 
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The Romulan stuff for sure, but there’s a whole B4/Data thread in there too for Nemesis as well as a Voyager character and some pretty deep cuts with characters like Hugh, Icheb and Maddox. I think PIC Season 1 uses the destruction of Romulus as a springboard for its' setting, but with all the synth stuff, the Borg and Riker/Data... PIC has it's feet firmly in TNG and related works. I wouldn't say it's based on ST09, rather that it uses an isolated element of 09's plot to further the TNG timeline.

There’s a reason I can’t watch Picard with my wife and that’s that I’d have to create some kind of Trek TNG/Voyager primer to get her through the experience. It's not a show for the uninitiated which makes me think that, yeah, people do care about the old shows and characters from them. If Hugh can make a comeback, why not Trip Tucker?

Hugh, while only in two episodes, was from a show that was immensely more popular than a main character from a show that was quite unpopular. The audience for PIC also had a vested interest in Hugh. Granted there was another character from another show in PIC, but she was there primarily because she was a former Borg, like Hugh. What vested interest would an audience have today for a character from the 22nd century from an unpopular show who, as far as CBS is concerned, is dead? (and this is coming from someone who thought Trip was the best character in ENT.)
 
@Dukhat

As I said above, I think there’s zero chance of it happening anyway. I don’t have a horse in this race.

I just don’t think it’s outside the realms of possibility. Speaking as a person in my early 40s then I have no idea how a new fan in their youth would approach the back catalog or if they’d care, but I suspect they’d be more interested than you think.
 
Hugh, while only in two episodes, was from a show that was immensely more popular than a main character from a show that was quite unpopular. The audience for PIC also had a vested interest in Hugh. Granted there was another character from another show in PIC, but she was there primarily because she was a former Borg, like Hugh. What vested interest would an audience have today for a character from the 22nd century from an unpopular show who, as far as CBS is concerned, is dead? (and this is coming from someone who thought Trip was the best character in ENT.)

And how do you judge popularity? Since despite TNG being the most popular show in the franchise, they did not want PIC to be another TNG. And those financially backing the production of PIC (i.e. Amazon) agreed with that direction.

And if popularity is determined by ratings to determine what is popular in the mainstream, then focus on the stuff that had high or decent ratings in ENT. That breaks down as:

- The feature length premiere episode “Broken Bow (12.59M)
- The majority of S1, with the exception of “Fusion”, “Rouge Planet”, “Detained”, & “Desert Crossing” (5.2M-9.1M)
- “Minefield”, ”Dead Stop”, “A Night in Sickbay” & “Marauders” being the most popular for S2 (5.2M -6.2M)

All of the above is consistent with what VOY was receiving in viewership for the entirety of its run. Except the premiere episode “Caretaker”, which got almost double the viewership compared to what ENT’s premiere got in viewership at 21.3M. And the TPTB at the time made the decision to drift away from the formula created during VOY’s run that brought consistent viewership for 8 years to chase a new formula in ENT’s third and fourth seasons to make a more popular show, which clearly failed and ended up performing worse than what they were originally doing. Since when they changed direction, the most popular episodes going forwards were S3’s “Similitude” and “Rajiin” (4.59M and 4.51M repeatedly), and those episodes dwarfed everything else in S3 and S4 in viewership, including the highest rated episodes of S4 in “Terra Prime” and TATV (3.8M). But was less in viewership than certain S1 & S2 episodes in “Rogue Planet”, “Detained”, “Desert Crossing”, “Shockwave II”, “Carbon Creek” “Singularity”, “Precious Cargo”, “The Catwalk”, “Cease Fire” & “Future Tense”, which averaged around 4.6M-4.9M.

Trip kicking the bucket was an unpopular decision, one of the many unpopular decisions made during the show's run. It was as disliked as making T’Pol suffer from mind meld AIDS, and then her addiction to trellium-D. Or how they portrayed Archer in ‘A Night In Sickbay”. Bu the unpopularity of the show in its last two years lies on the decision makers for that show and them alone. So saying Trip or any other member of the cast can’t come back because how TPTB at the time handled the final 2 years of ENT is disingenuous. At minimum, a tv movie (as indicated by “Broken Bow”), a cast member returning (i.e Seven of Nine) or a guest cameo in a movie (i.e Admiral Janeway in NEM) are all in the realm of possibility.
 
And how do you judge popularity?

The same way that UPN and CBS judged popularity: by ratings. That's why there hasn't been a follow-up show to ENT: because in CBS's eyes, that show was not watched by the general Star Trek viewing audience, and was the only Trek show besides TOS to be cancelled.

What I or anyone else personally think of how good or bad a show or movie is, doesn't matter to CBS. What matters is data (and not the android.) Your data about viewer ratings for any particular episode pales in comparison to the show as a whole.

Believe me, if ENT ever comes back, I'll happily eat my words. I simply just don't see it happening.
 
The same way that UPN and CBS judged popularity: by ratings. That's why there hasn't been a follow-up show to ENT: because in CBS's eyes, that show was not watched by the general Star Trek viewing audience, and was the only Trek show besides TOS to be cancelled.

What I or anyone else personally think of how good or bad a show or movie is, doesn't matter to CBS. What matters is data (and not the android.) Your data about viewer ratings for any particular episode pales in comparison to the show as a whole.

Believe me, if ENT ever comes back, I'll happily eat my words. I simply just don't see it happening.

And so, I showed ratings. I only point it out because the argument that the show in genera; was not popular doesn’t really hold weight.

What the evidence does show is that from a business perspective, the new direction in S3 & S4 sucked. Its not something anyone wants to hear, since Manny Coto did turn the show around and those seasons are praised by the cast and fans alike, and they were knocking it out of the park production wise and soundtrack wise and everyone seems to like what was planned for S5. But business wise, the direction was no good, aside from showing how to produce the show on a cheap budget and actually living up to the prequel concept.

But its also evident that a new direction needed to be taken with a different showrunner, not that the concept or cast or the undeveloped story ideas were bad. A new direction that wasn’t heavy on fan service or a dark & edgy story, but also respected that the audience was done with TCW (but not necessarily the Suliban per se), the Klingons (but not other legacy species), decon chambers & the big three format (1-2 episodes for all seven cast members). And were more interested in mainly ethical dilemmas and ethical ambiguity, and the struggles, mistakes, and naiveite of the crew in the face of them as that was the strength of the show. And do that, and they will tolerate silliness episodes such as "A Night in Sickbay".

I'm sure someone with figure this out eventually.
 
I'm not sure what there is to figure out. CBS has five more or less successful shows on their streaming platform, and the possibility of a few more shows once PIC ends and DSC inevitably dries up. So far I've heard nothing about Paramount+ wanting to bring back a show that CBS deemed a failure, or any desire to bring back a character who was shown to have died. Maybe they might get Bakula into the recording booth for an Archer voiceover in Lower Decks or something equally easter-eggish, but that's probably the extent of that. CBS seems to know what they're doing as far as making Trek marketable again.

The other issue is that even if they did 'bring ENT back,' it would look and feel in no way like the show from 2001. It would be as much like ENT as PIC is like TNG.
 
Why do y'all say it's unpopular? Still watched by 4 million at the very end. By CW standards ( which the show was on UPN, a precursor, which alot of areas didn't have) it would be a smash hit.. The Flash barely breaks 3 mill viewers today.

I would maybe say least popular ( that would be voyager for me.. Ent is my top one) but it has seen a resurgence of popularity with people streaming it again and finding out it didn't suck.
 
Well, there are no viewership numbers posted for the current series..
Seen a guess of 9.1 million for the premiere of Discovery .. Which is less than Ent 12.6 or half of voyager 21 mill.
 
What the evidence does show is that from a business perspective, the new direction in S3 & S4 sucked. Its not something anyone wants to hear, since Manny Coto did turn the show around and those seasons are praised by the cast and fans alike, and they were knocking it out of the park production wise and soundtrack wise and everyone seems to like what was planned for S5. But business wise, the direction was no good, aside from showing how to produce the show on a cheap budget and actually living up to the prequel concept.
As you said, Seasons 3 and 4 were deemed better by the viewers - better written, more engaging, digitally shot, beautiful production values, great direction and music, big guest stars. "Praised by the cast and fans alike"...except for TATV of course, which the cast despised, along with most fans. So I would lay a lot of the blame for the lessening ratings, not on the creative team, but on UPN - a struggling would-be network with terrible national coverage and a slate of shows completely different in tone and demographic target from Enterprise. UPN didn't know what to do with ENT. Their advertising was terrible, and they often preempted the show for sports shows, so the first run of many episodes was over the weekend in the wee hours and viewers couldn't even find it. This is not how you boost the ratings of your "marquee" show with a great Trek pedigree.

Look how FOX turned "The X-Files" from a quirky, low-rated show in its first season to a hit - by stripping episodes 5 a week, advertising the heck out of it everywhere, presenting it as Event TV. The only hit FOX had back then was "The Simpsons," and it stuck with "X-Files" and loved it and nurtured it and gave it a great shot - and the viewers found it, sampled it, and stayed. FOX had faith in XF and hung in there.

It's too bad ENT in S3 and S4 didn't have that kind of support, when the quality of the show was rising. I think the ratings were higher than just Nielsens too, considering the new DVR tech at that time that wasn't being tracked for viewership, so ENT didn't benefit from those hardy fans who DVR'd the show on Sunday mornings at 2am or whenever, in those last seasons.
 
And the TPTB at the time made the decision to drift away from the formula created during VOY’s run that brought consistent viewership for 8 years to chase a new formula in ENT’s third and fourth seasons to make a more popular show, which clearly failed and ended up performing worse than what they were originally doing.
I'm not sure I'd agree on your interpretation of the data.
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Seasons 3 and 4 is where the ratings mostly levelled out. There was still a decline in viewers over time but that's not all that unusual.

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Here's DS9's chart, looking fairly similar (though clearly starting in a better place). TNG was a genuine hit and actually picked up viewers over time, but none of the Berman-era spin-offs were able to replicate that unusual level of success. I wouldn't say I'm looking at failures here though.
 
It's not a matter of failure. It's a matter of is it worth the money. The numbers and trends do not indicate positive returns.
 
Hey a little side note for Enterprise fans…

John Billingsley is going to be at Shore Leave this weekend. If any of you are in the Baltimore area, you should check it out. He’s a great convention guest.
 
Hey a little side note for Enterprise fans…

John Billingsley is going to be at Shore Leave this weekend. If any of you are in the Baltimore area, you should check it out. He’s a great convention guest.

I'm in the area but unfortunately I have other plans this weekend.
 
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