Most of the really awful TNG episodes kind of pass through the state of awful into that place where you can laugh at them when drunk. Kind of like you do with Shumachers Batman and Robin. Masks falls into that category. Sub Rosa is just so creepy in all the wrong ways that you feel you need a shower after it. But the worst by far is Shades of Grey, it's not even bad enough to be comically or drunkenly interesting. It isn't the horrifying incestuous train wreck that is Sub Rosa. It isn't even an episode. There is literally zero reason to watch it ever. There is no story there. If you want to make fun of the clips, go watch the original episodes.
Worst TNG Episode Ever?
- Thread starter Chief Medical Officer
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Sub Rosa is very, very cheesy. So cheesy it's a natural wonder. Chessier than a rat banquet.
Poor Troi in the Pakled-La Forge hostage crisis. Funny stuff. She's the only one sane giving sane advise whilst the entire bridge cast her aside as the bridge's very own flakey mystic. There's a kind of grim comedy to that episode as well.
Poor Troi in the Pakled-La Forge hostage crisis. Funny stuff. She's the only one sane giving sane advise whilst the entire bridge cast her aside as the bridge's very own flakey mystic. There's a kind of grim comedy to that episode as well.
Somehow I don't think she'll be offended... I am though, as a male -- stop speaking for me!!
At the time, Conspiracy did seem like a cynical attempt to shoehorn some pointless gore into things, just to provoke. Looking back now, though, I actually appreciate the fact that they were willing to include something that harsh and graphic, because, well, it 's not all that nice a universe, out there.
Next Gen and the later shows never seemed to make up their minds totally as to whether they were adult drama. An early review of season one of NG referred to it as "not quite for adults, not quite for children". I think no subject matter should have been out of bounds.
And for the record, I have never, ever, not for one moment, enjoyed blood and gore for its own sake.
The entire franchise has been going on for so long (like Doctor Who) there are those who have extremely polarizing thoughts about various episodes. Not too mention, race, gender, sexual orientation....political viewpoints....(a crush on an actor or actress) ...or a writing/directing interest...may factor in why some like certain episodes and despise others.
I want to revisit the episode again. The Samaritan Snare. I've seen it twice already. I remember it being the episode where the aliens get a kick out of phasering Geordi just to get the crew to do their bidding.
Interesting idea, a species who is, well, stupid compared to us, and are determined to compete anyway. And in recent years I've been noticing Pakleds appearing a lot over the years at Quark's bar ... that's always fun.
I pretty much love every TNG episode (except the obviously useless Shades of Grey) but I have never thought much of "Final Mission." There just isn't enough there and I feel like the big revelation, that Wesley is crippled by needing Picard's approval, is pretty much restated in every episode Wesley is in. So that would be my vote.
There was a brief time in the late 90s when they ran I, Borg as a rerun so often my dad and I would joke about how much we hated it. But after a 10 year break I enjoy it again :-)
There was a brief time in the late 90s when they ran I, Borg as a rerun so often my dad and I would joke about how much we hated it. But after a 10 year break I enjoy it again :-)
I was going to say this was a misconception, that the idea was supposed to be that the Pakleds were as smart as the standard Next Generation humanoid species and just gave off stupid vibes. Which would be a fine enough concept since we all know individuals like that and how maddening it can be to try to work with them.
But then I read the episode transcript and, no, Troi just comes out and says they're dummies trying to go into space instead of sitting tight and waiting to be less stupid. Which brings to mind James Nicoll's quip about how in science fiction, biology is the red-headed stepchild that comes to school covered in bruises.
Next Generation is so wrapped up in nice warm nostalgic tones you forget the offensive stuff.
The script for "Samaritan Snare" could've used another rewrite or two.
That one where Data builds a daughter...... I turn the TV to another channel when it comes on
Yes, the idea is something that can be very abused when applied to Earth, and human beings. Racists love this idea, that some peoples are inherently smarter than others, but in context this is not racist.
What inviolable rule or law is there in this universe, that says all intelligent species must have a roughly similar intelligence level? And if we accept that some aliens are more intelligent than us, couldn't some conceivably be less so? It's bound to happen.
It's certainly conceivable. It's a plausible idea and a provocative one. It's an idea worth developing. It's about something substantive: what duties does someone owe to a person that's not fully competent? It's an issue with ethical implications for the disabled, for minors, and for that matter also animals. Examining it through the allegory of aliens is a potentially fruitful way to go.
But this? ``The whole trouble is caused by these inferiors not knowing and keeping their place''? Yeah, that is a racist storyline, and a colonialist one, with an elitist touch layered on for good measure. Slapping a coat of ``but this time the inferiors really are inferior'' paint on it doesn't make the building less shoddy. The racist storyteller used the same paint.
If the generic you wants to do this story, then you have to put in the work and show thought going into the premise and the implications. And, jeez, can anyone convince themselves a lot of thought went into the Pakleds or their story?
I'll grant the Next Generation show runners probably weren't intending something pretty racist. If pressed about it at all they were probably figuring they had something like ``everybody has the place they do best''. But the episode needed a lot more work to get what they probably meant to say highlighted and what they didn't mean to say minimized.
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They needed to do better than have the bridge crew LOLing at the Pakleds and then LOLing at Troi. They could've rejected Troi's advice whilst preserving her dignity. The writers also needed to make the decision as to whether the Pakleds are at a lower level of intelligence or whether they are just pretending to be. They seemed to infer that it's both at different stages of the episode and so muddled it all up. This is season two's Datalore-esque episode; a very messy episode.
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Well it seemed that way for sure. I haven't seen the episode in years but it did seem they managed to get somewhat of an upper hand.
Riker 100% left his brain in stasis in that episode. An inanimate carbon rod could've outwitted him.
As a great fan of Riker, I like to ignore this episode. He goes from looking at them condescendingly because of how they behave to acting like an idiot. It does provide one thing which stuck in my mind for 20 years. The Packleds respond to some question about there ship with something like "we are far from home" and Riker says "yesss aren't we all. But..." - I don't know why it cracked me up so much but it did.
You have a very specific angle on this, that could be interesting, but why should they have to have that point to make, to include this kind of character?
Those bastards!! Wait, no, they never said that, or anything like that. Their attitude consisted of -- These guys aren't very bright or mechanical, so let's send Geordi to fix their ship. Oh no, now they're holding Geordi hostage." That's all.
When Riker said "You need to continue to develop" it was because the Pakleds had just put him on the spot, having just asked, "You think we are not smart?" It was more diplomatic than "You guys are idiots." And the Enterprise people's general point about the Pakleds was merely that it's not really practical to strike out into space when the engineering of your ships is beyond you, and you therefore have to beg for repair help from passers-by, every time the least little thing goes wrong.
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They're not mentally incompetent, not impaired, just not as smart as a lot of species-- it's what Pakleds are like at this point. Splitting hairs? I don't know. I just don't see this as an opportunity to make some point about how to treat the mentally handicapped. That could be a good script, but a very different situation. Here, the idea of a species of lower intelligence, which has managed to get into space anyway, is included as an interesting element or possibility, in the same way that, say, a barrier at the edge of the galaxy is. That's sufficient justification for them, though there are more interesting approaches.
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Our responsibilities toward them? Well, Riker doesn't kill them, which was nice. Low intelligence doesn't excuse kidnapping and violence to get what you want.
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I like ideas. I'll weight that over other things in Star Trek episodes even if it's a lesser episode, and it'll bump the episode up a notch in my opinion.
Samaritan Snare feels surreal. Even when I first watched it, it didn't feel like an STNG episode at all. There are episodes that feel like this somewhat in season two and it's one reason why I rate it as my least favorite season.
RAMA
Did they have very obvious fake hands for the Pakleds? I vaguely remember a TNG episode that the aliens had this big hands that had very obvious drawn lines on them.
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