Worst Character Assassination Episodes

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by Oddish, May 6, 2021.

  1. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2021
    Remember what proto-Tuvok said to Picard: "You are Starfleet. you won't kill me."

    No, he won't kill you. He'll just leave you there to die.:rolleyes:

    A distinction without a difference.
     
  2. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    In all fairness, Picard didn't seem to have a lot of options available to him...
     
    Tim Thomason likes this.
  3. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2021
    He could have tried to contact ground control to tell them to stop the sweep.

    I think he's a bit of a hypocrite given how hard he went on Dr. Marr for killing the Crystalline entity. Here we have people that he didn't even know at the time what they were up to and yet he didn't try to prevent killing them.

    Same thing about Riker on Devedia II he was ready to bombard the aliens and never even tried to talk to them to find a solution as they were ready to do with the crystalline entity.

    Dr. Marr should sue their hypocritical asses and get them all demoted.
     
  4. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Location:
    The Wormhole
    Considering how long it took them to respond when he did do that at the end of the episode, it still wouldn't have been enough to save the guy.
     
  5. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2021
    The point is that he didn't try.
     
  6. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2001
    Location:
    The Wormhole
    And my point is even if he had tried, the guy would still end up dead anyway.
     
  7. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2021
    Given how they all browbeat Dr Marr, it's the least he should have done.
     
  8. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    He may not have been confident he could try without giving away his position.
     
  9. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2021
    Neither Was Dr Marr that they could talk to the thing without letting it escape and massacre another settlement.
     
  10. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2021
    Plus there was also Riker in Devedia II who was ready to obliterate a species without even talking to them to see if there were alternate solutions...
     
  11. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    Dr. Marr killed what might have been a sentient creature just as Our Heroes were beginning to communicate with it, and at a point where there was no evidence to suggest that the Entity was even aware that it was killing people and nobody was in imminent danger. The people who boarded the E-D were fully aware of what they were doing, and you haven't yet provided a good answer as to what Picard could have done to save them.
     
  12. DonIago

    DonIago Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2001
    Location:
    Burlington, VT, USA
    Is this a reference to "Time's Arrow"? If so, my recollection is that when the E-D opened fire the aliens were already doing something of their own, so the E-D's actions were preventative.
     
  13. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2021
    Dr Marr killed a thing that had killed thousands of people. Picard killed people that for all we know hadn't killed anyone!!! Who's more guilty?
     
  14. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2021
    Riker didn't even try to talk to them to see if they couldn't be convinced to change their ways. He should have been treated like they treated Dr. Marr, poetic justice.
     
  15. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    I always figured that Picard was unable to stop the baryon sweep until the end, otherwise he would have terminated it far sooner. Also, if I remember right, he disabled No-ears Tuvok, then attempted to escape the ship, where he could have stopped the sweep and sent in security teams to apprehend the intruders. It didn't happen that way.

    As for the Entity, the Enterprise had the means to destroy it. Had communication and negotiation proven impossible, they could have smashed it to bits long before it could hurt anyone else. Dr. Marr was not acting in defense of self or others, she was taking revenge.
     
    DonIago likes this.
  16. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2021
    Wrong Dr. Marr sacrificed her career because of stupid Starfleet and its corrupt principles to save colonists who would have paid for Picard's foolish attempt. It's been said in the episode that they didn't have complete control over the creature, it could have fled in the middle of a "conversation" and killed another settlement before they could catch up with it.

    Riker killed the people on devidia II without trying to negotiate with them. He's a betrayer of his own principles and should have been held accountable for that if not for the mess called Starfleet where one hand doesn't know what the other one is doing...

    Dr. Marr's career has been sacrificed on the altar of idiocy and irresponsibility; not to mention the hubris of thinking that they could change a thing's nature by talking to it.

    You don't try to talk to AIDS you cure it.
     
  17. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    I'm not saying that the Entity shouldn't have been destroyed... Riker had survived one of its attacks, and he agreed with Dr. Marr that the wisest course of action was to destroy it. And I certainly find Picard's line about sperm whales and cuttlefish to be... disturbing. Had I been in charge of the mission, my reaction upon seeing the thing might well have been "Mr. Worf, photon torpedoes. Full spread."

    However, that doesn't change the fact that Dr. Marr (1) was emotionally unbalanced, (2) disobeyed Starfleet's and Captain Picard's orders to pursue a personal vendetta, and (3) sabotaged a Federation starship. At the very least, she needed some time in a nice Federation sanitarium on Betazed.
     
    DonIago likes this.
  18. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2021
    At the very least the brass should acknowledge that the mitigating circumstances were overwhelming. And Picard was out of line when he ordered that she was confined to quarters as if she were a vulgar criminal, who would attack people at random. He crossed the line there!!
     
  19. Oddish

    Oddish Commodore Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2020
    Must disagree.
    1. As mentioned, even if her actions were justifiable, she was still emotionally unbalanced.
    2. She had still disobeyed instructions, and still sabotaged the ship's graviton emitters.
    3. Picard would have thrown a vulgar criminal in the brig. Confinement to quarters was appropriate, under the circumstances.
     
  20. Swedish Borg

    Swedish Borg Commodore Captain

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2021
    Well, I guess it's a matter of opinion.