Spoilers Wonder Woman - Grading & Discussion

[The Nth Doctor]

Wonder Woman opened today in Australia and I just got in from seeing it. I've got mixed feelings about it overall but feel ultimately it's the most solid DCEU flick yet, but that's not really saying much.

The Good:

Gal Gadot IS Wonder Woman. I really liked her performance. Gadot has a good handle on the humour, and the deeper emotional aspects of the story and it is joyous watching her fight. Wonder Woman, is at this point the only thing keeping me interested in the DCEU. Wonder Woman is arguably the strongest character in the DCEU.

Chris Pine is equally as good , but seriously i'd watch this stone cold babe in anything. Pine and Gadot have great chemistry, I really liked Steve Trevors story arc.

The first 3 quarters of the film are very strong and the pacing is good. Patty Jenkins does a good job for the most part.


The Bad:

The Villains are terribly weak and under-utilised, Danny Huston is horribly wasted, Dr Poison might as well not be there. Ares whilst physically a good match for Diana, is let down by a weak, phoned in performance.

The final act of the film is rushed and The final battle lacks gravitas and energy despite the fact is full of explosions and lightning

The slow motion during the fight scenes gets old really quick and the cgi is very spotty in some parts

Whilst Gal Gadot and Chris Pine have great chemistry, the relationship between Diana and Steve feels forced. It feels like the relationship only happens because it's a hollywood movie and the male and female lead HAVE to fall in love. It detracts from Diana being dedicated to her mission. The relationship pays off in the end but i still felt it was unnecessary

In terms of music, Wonder Woman's theme is severely underused and the overall musical score it's not memorable at all.

Overall:

Wonder Woman is the best DCEU film, but still pales in comparison to Marvel. I don't say this as a rabid marvel fan boy either. I really wanted Wonder Woman to be the turning point for the DCEU, but it is just not quite there. Still, I'm keeping an open mind for Justice League

This prettty much sums up feelings about the film, only to add that I wish there was more Etta because she and Diana were the best characters. I loved the sequences in No Man's Land (especially the Eowyn moment) and the Belgian village, but the rest of the film was merely enjoyable and nothing special. I look forward to more Gal Gadot as Diana but with a better script.

 

[dahj]

I look forward to more Gal Gadot as Diana

Justice League
In theaters November

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

It's easy to walk in expecting this to be a feminist movie (shades of Peggy Carter, Season One). I would say this movie is far more about humanity than anything else..

Agreed--that was one of the biggest takeaways from the film. Unlike certain superhero adaptations--where sociopolitical platforms are used in horribly one-sided ways, Wonder Woman created a character defined by the individual creating their own destiny (beyond what she was created for) and achievement without aid, or contrast to anyone else. She stood on her own, and soared to the level of a superheroine on her own.

I've had some time to reflect on the movie.

One thing I saw that I hope is a way forward in stories like this is the idea that it is possible to tell a story about someone like Diana without putting men down.

The opposite of certain TV series.

The men were a bit blown away by Diana at first but then almost immediately fell in line. They men weren't cliches cave men who couldn't accept a capable woman. They just moved ahead and got the job down, working together as a team. Refreshing.

Well said. As noted above, Diana created her own destiny and achievement without it being a sociopoliticized attack on men, and each of her male allies lived up to their own stated abilities without a producer's need to reduce them to half wits or easily smacked around toy soldiers in order to make the lead appear strong. She is a superheroine, and is already one of the few beings standing above the rest--that's the nature of the character, so belittling the "regulars" was not (and is never) necessary in order for her to shine.

Wonder Woman has always been a woman, not a pseudo-man. Her compassion and empathy (and of course men can show compassion and empathy!) are shown to be strengths just like her ability to pick up a building.

All true.

Her awwing over a baby...is an example of that. She's a woman and some women like to aww over babies. (and no, not all women aww over babies and sometimes men aww over babies) but I hope you can understand what I'm getting at. She doesn't have to pretend to be a man to be strong and capable.

In other words, no character--male or female--needs to remove whatever particular natural traits / tendencies might be in order to succeed. I've said it before, and will do so again: its no surprise why this Wonder Woman is--by far--the greatest adaptation of a female comic-book character to date. Everything else is a mess by comparison.

 

[MadeIndescribable]

So I finally found someone put into words how I felt about Wonder Woman
Unfortunately it's a twitter thread, but basically:

"I'm a man, and I consider myself a feminist and a progressive. But seeing Wonder Woman made me aware of some of my patriarchal conditioning. ... Intellectually I know and believe in the idea of strong women, and I know plenty, but this scene playing out in front of me, shocked me ... I think men are afraid of femininity because they fear that half of themselves. The half we've been trained to pretend doesn't exist.

I'm hearing/reading how a lot of people cried at some of the action scenes & I totally get it. I didn't but I felt that emotional pull-- You know the one that precedes the crying? That tug at your heart strings that Pixar has honed into a scientific equation? I felt that."
- @kemiroart

 

[JD]

Wonder Woman is secretly a Princess Bride sequel. (OK I know it really isn't, but it's still a fun article)
I honestly didn't even realize that was her until I saw the article.

 

[Hound of UIster]

One common complaint I see is the use of the old British guy as Ares during the battle after the reveal. I sort-of agree it doesn't work seeing him as The God of War! With that gray British old-man mustache and his Britishness. In a flashback we see "young" Ares with a 70s porn-star look and mustache, I think that would have been better look for Ares if "Old British Man" had changed his appearance to a younger look for the battle. Because, yeah, it's hard to take the God of War seriously when you think he's moments away from asking for a spot of tea.

I think the toy or the comic depiction would have worked better with the face being obscured by darkness.

 

[gblews]

Justice League
In theaters November

As anxious as I am to see more of WW, the JLA movie will be a Zack Snyder film, to which I'm not looking forward. Now if the movie had been directed by Joss Whedon or Patty Jenkins, I'd be excited.

 

[DigificWriter]

As anxious as I am to see more of WW, the JLA movie will be a Zack Snyder film, to which I'm not looking forward. Now if the movie had been directed by Joss Whedon or Patty Jenkins, I'd be excited.

Given that Patty Jenkins very much built on the foundation that Zack Snyder helped establish in Man of Steel and Batman v Superman and that David Ayer also built on, this statement is incredibly nonsensical.

 

[Noname Given]

Given that Patty Jenkins very much built on the foundation that Zack Snyder helped establish in Man of Steel and Batman v Superman and that David Ayer also built on, this statement is incredibly nonsensical.

IDK - unlike those other two films, the one she directed was enjoyable, entertaining, watchable; and did service to the character. I honestly can't say the same for much of MoS - and even less for BvS - DOJ and SS. In fact a friend in our group skipped Wonder Woman because he felt burned by the other 3 DCEU movies (especially SS) and didn't feel like taking a chance on this one. (His loss, but still.)

 

[MadeIndescribable]

Now if the movie had been directed by Joss Whedon or Patty Jenkins, I'd be excited.

I'm intreagued by the fact that Joss Whedon has taken over finishing off the film, but given that Zak had already done the bulk of the work, it will be interesting to see how much/what effect Whedon will have.

 

[DigificWriter]

I'm intreagued by the fact that Joss Whedon has taken over finishing off the film, but given that Zak had already done the bulk of the work, it will be interesting to see how much/what effect Whedon will have.

Joss' job isn't to come in and "change" Justice League, nor would it be something he would be willing to do even if he was asked/told to, as he's been openly candid about the personal slight he felt when people on the set of the Buffy the Vampire Slayer film came in and changed nearly everything about the film.

 

[JanewayRulz!]

Wonder Woman is secretly a Princess Bride sequel. (OK I know it really isn't, but it's still a fun article)
I honestly didn't even realize that was her until I saw the article.

Oh gosh, I will never be able to look at Princess Buttercup the same.

Thank heavens Steve Trevor never told Diana, "As you wissshhhh."

 

[Mudd]

Meh, I liked MoS and BvS a lot more than I have most of the Marvel movies I've seen

 

[Tosk]

Given that Patty Jenkins very much built on the foundation that Zack Snyder helped establish in Man of Steel and Batman v Superman and that David Ayer also built on, this statement is incredibly nonsensical.

No it isn't. gblews enjoyed Wonder Woman and evidently did not enjoy the Snyder movies. So they are less positive about the next film by Snyder. It makes perfect sense. Foundation and intent don't mean anything if you don't like the finished film.

 

[MadeIndescribable]

Joss' job isn't to come in and "change" Justice League, nor would it be something he would be willing to do even if he was asked/told to, as he's been openly candid about the personal slight he felt when people on the set of the Buffy the Vampire Slayer film came in and changed nearly everything about the film.

I agree he's not going to change the whole film even if it wasn't just in the finishing up stages, but as a film-maker who I would argue is a master of the craft (compared to Snyder who I would say really isn't) I'm wondering what choices he would make in the final edit etc that would make the story more comprehensible than without his influence.

 

[dahj]

but as a film-maker who I would argue is a master of the craft (compared to Snyder who I would say really isn't)

Well that's nonsense. Both are masters in their own way.

Joss is a good storyteller and he excels at character scenes and interaction, but he's a fairly pedestrian director when it comes to visuals. Zack, on the other hand, is one of the few major directors in Hollywood who still treats film as a visual medium first, he puts an incredible amount of focus on detail in his movies(which makes them remarkably rewatchable), and his narrative focus is more on thematic storytelling.

As far as Justice League goes, I think the combination of both Joss' more "telly" and Zack's more "showy" styles could be brilliant, personally I can't wait to see it.

 

[Kirk Prime]

Well said. As noted above, Diana created her own destiny and achievement without it being a sociopoliticized attack on men, and each of her male allies lived up to their own stated abilities without a producer's need to reduce them to half wits or easily smacked around toy soldiers in order to make the lead appear strong. She is a superheroine, and is already one of the few beings standing above the rest--that's the nature of the character, so belittling the "regulars" was not (and is never) necessary in order for her to shine.

Compare this to the last two episodes of this season's Supergirl, where you had Cat Grant giving a whiny attack speech on men, and Kara having to defeat Superman to appear strong, with Superman basically being submissive for the rest of the episode. Wonder Woman proves the point I was trying to make in that discussion, that a woman can be incredible without the need to make anyone else look weak.

As for Justice League, what Wonder Woman did was give me hope that the talk of changing the tone might actually work. But as always, it all comes down to Superman, which they botched in both attempts. The promise seems to be that we will actually get Superman once he overcomes that whole death problem.

I just hope they don't pull a Luke Skywalker and save him for basically a cameo.

 

[MadeIndescribable]

Zack, on the other hand, is one of the few major directors in Hollywood who still treats film as a visual medium first, he puts an incredible amount of focus on detail in his movies(which makes them remarkably rewatchable), and his narrative focus is more on thematic storytelling.

I will admit Snyder does good visuals, but to me he often puts too much focus on them, and not enough attention to the plot, to the point that Watchmen is the only film of his I've even wanted to rewatch (and the plot was already there for him).

Each to their own though I guess.

 

[Mudd]

Wonder Woman proves the point I was trying to make in that discussion, that a woman can be incredible without the need to make anyone else look weak.

Except that Superman didn't look weak in any way in that Supergirl episode. Kara just beat him in a fair fight, as many folk have over the decades.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

This and Captain America are my favorite superhero movies of the last quarter century.

I mean, not counting the funny ones.

I don't think.they can bring Pine back except in flashbacks. It's not the 1970s; that kind of cheat is cheesy TV stuff.

They did that kind of thing in the '60's and '50's too, IIRC. I also want Steve to stay dead; Wonder Woman will have to get new supports (perhaps Julia Kapetlis, or anybody else from the George Perez stories.)