Spoilers Wonder Woman - Grading & Discussion

[marillion]

It's very hard for me to believe that the character we were presented in this movie would allow the holocaust to happen...

And the only thing that could get her to "interfere" is a giant monster attacking Gotham?

This kind of begs the question about what the sequel will be like? Will it be another period piece that explains the years in between?
What about the other metahumans? Aquaman certainly isn't the only being like himself to swim the seas.. Yes, you could argue that the metafolks just decided that WWII was the humans' fight and stayed out of the way... But then again, WWII was largely fought at sea too, so it directly/indirectly impacted Aquaman's people..

The sticky issue with blending superheros into real world history is that age-old question about why they don't just jump in and end it all quickly and neatly.. Why not just wipe out Hitler and his minions with one fell swoop.. Granted, Diana isn't bullet proof, but she could certainly, with the help of a crack team, infiltrate Nazi Germany and take him out...

So something must have kept her from doing it..

 

[TREK_GOD_1]

WW was in no way "unified in tone" with Snyder's dreary, unheroic angsty flicks.

Heroism is not sticking one's chest out, smiling while punching bad guys. Wonder Woman is indeed unified in tone, as it was filled with equally relevant tone & darker implications from the start: the German attack on Themyscira (and the death of Diana's aunt). to Diana desperately wanting--and getting to wage war at every stop among the hopeless backdrop of WW1, which could not be softened, or made into the cartoon "conflict" seen in the Avengers movies. More than the acts of violence, the heroine was constantly faced with reality checks which melted her belief that men could be convinced to lay down their arms. Ares or no Ares, that's a running theme throughout the film--one which Trevor had to yell into her when she was perplexed that Ludendorff's (and ultimately Ares') death did not change anything about war or the men fighting it--a fact she will see over the off-screen, Ares influence-free century leading to her present day encounter with Superman & Batman.

Diana's personality and growth are in no way similar to Reeve's Superman--he's not having his world view constantly challenged, or modified, but uses it as a force against said challenges. As in my review, she is paralleled (in near endless ways) with the MCU Captain America, as he--after sacrificing himself in the ice believing he was working for the greater good--wakes up 70 years later, only to discover the so-called good guys (SHIELD) are almost as corrupt as the bad guys--and that's without the influence of Hydra within the organization. As a result of having seen the true nature of things around him--

Steve's attitude in The Winter Soldier and Civil War is one of a slightly condescending expectation of mankind continuing to manipulate, threaten and oppress. He's clearly world weary (with no overt happy disposition), but will retain his moral center in order to do his part.

Similarly--

Diana's attitude in Dawn of Justice is one of a slightly condescending expectation of mankind continuing to manipulate, threaten and oppress. She's clearly world weary (with no overt happy disposition), but will retain her moral center (like this DC film universe's Superman) in order to do her part.

There's no "grinning warrior" (like some episode of the Super Friends) as the characters move through the films. That's realistic, natural growth (as much as that happens in a superhero film).

It is no wonder the Cap films are so well received: they are free of the G.I. Joe / Transformers cartoons style of over-the-top theatrics and tossing in everything including the kitchen sink just say they've made a spectacle. The DC films (with Suicide Squad being the lone exception) established a world and tone that never runs away from the fantastic source, but places it in situations that feel not only exciting, but thought-provoking in dealing with serious subject matter--like the MCU's finest, the Captain America films.

 

[DigificWriter]

This kind of begs the question about what the sequel will be like? Will it be another period piece that explains the years in between?

Nope.

As per Patty Jenkins, the film will be set in contemporary times (likely after the events of Justice League).

The sticky issue with blending superheros into real world history is that age-old question about why they don't just jump in and end it all quickly and neatly.. Why not just wipe out Hitler and his minions with one fell swoop.. Granted, Diana isn't bullet proof, but she could certainly, with the help of a crack team, infiltrate Nazi Germany and take him out...

So something must have kept her from doing it..

What kept her from doing what you suggest is that she realized that it wasn't actually her responsibility to protect mankind from themselves and that she needed to simply let them behave as they would. This is communicated through the course of her conversation and eventual battle with Ares and in her post-BvS monologue that ends the film.

 

[Trekker4747]

I had a similar issue with the trailer for Dunkirk shown before Wonder Woman where some of the fishing boats in the harbour looked very modern and not WW2-like.

The Dunkirk segment I got in front of the IMAX screening was the first thing to get me even slightly interested in that movie. The look, tone, music, and direction of that clip was great. (Assuming it was a full, unedited, scene plucked right out of the movie.) Still not sure I'll go see it, as I'm sick to death of WW2 movies, but the clip was interesting.


I don't entirely get the feeling Diana/WW completely took a back-seat role and retired from her few days of heroism after WW1 and just happened to come back into the role when Doomsday showed up (and she just happened to have her (new) armor and different shield and a new sword with her) I get the feeling she possibly too more of a "back seat" role and only stepped in during extreme times like when super-powered beings or other "gods" showed up. But she mostly played lineman instead of quarterback. As said, it's hard to believe she stepped aside during WW2 when millions of people were being slaughtered over simply who they were.

Further, there's already talk of a WW2 (.... Wonder Woman 2, that is) and possibly making it another period piece which I would be all for and WW2 ( World War 2) would be a good time to place it but, again, allusions to Captain America and another damn WW2 movie.

I never got the feeling Steve and Diana spent much time at all moving from Themyscira to London, it seems pretty implied it was an "overnight" trip with the aid Steve got from the motorized boat. Considering it was trip within the range of a WW1 era plane from the German base to Themyscira it's likely the island is somewhere up in that area and not closer to the "Amazon" or where we'd expect it to be. The "shield" over the island could be providing the island with the paradise climate and environment counter to the environment of where it may likely be.

I was reading some stuff about the movie and production stuff and things I didn't even really catch. Like them not using candles/torches in Themyscira to illuminate the caverns (notably the room where Steve as washing up) and they had luminescent water, we see Steve playing with the water as well as the room lit by glass vases filled with the water. Sort of a neat little "detail."

I got to say, as much as I liked seeing it the movie and being used some of the effects with the Lasso of Truth looked kind of poor. There were times when it looked like someone just drew a squiggly line on the film in photoshop and gave it that golden glow. It didn't much look like an actual object in the world of the movie when WW used it in her battles and such. (It looked fine when used as a simple binding.)

The movie also could have done more to make it clearer on Diana's age between when she's born and the events in the movie, supposing to be close to 5,000 years. The movie makes it seem as if it was within a normal lifespan. Some piece of dialogue or something should have been tossed out to let us know how old she, and the other Amazonians, are.

 

[Noname Given]

I agree with others that many of us are of the assumption she skipped WWII - but she may not have. Her attachment to that photo may just be that it's the ONLY existing image of her and Steve Trevor, and partly, yes, she wanted the original to conceal her existence from the outside world; but further for her own sentimental reasons.

TLDR; Just because other photos/records of her don't exist (or there existence hasn't been stated on screen in the DCEU); it doesn't mean Diana 'skipped' taking action in WWII, It's possible she did 'sit it out', but (IMO given the events and characterization of her in this film) more likely she didn't; or if she did it was because of a BIGGER threat she took a hand in defeating during that time.

 

[Yanks]

I LOVED this movie!! A+

Only two little nit-pics. (I've only seen it once)

#1. When she walks into the ballroom in her beautiful recently acquired blue dress we see her back. Then later we see that she is sporting her sword back there.

#2. Not too keen on the performance of Candy. I knew what they were going for, but that actress didn't sell it very well ... well for me anyway.

I' glad this was an origin story of sorts. I didn't know all the Greek Gods stuff.

I also thought it was very clever weaving this story into the Armistice.

I'm not as down on the recent Superman movies or BvS as some (or most it seems), they had some issues but I enjoyed them nonetheless.

But this hands down is the best DC movie to date.

Gadot and Pine were fantastic together.

I had serious reservations about Gal's casting as WW. But they are all gone now. She IS WW.

Well done.

 

[JD]

It's also worth remember that the only reason she got involved with WWI was because of Ares, so if there was nothing supernatural going on in WWII she might not have felt it was her place to get involved.

 

[Theophilus]

I think WB and Zack Snyder finally figured out how to make movies together. I think Snyder influenced the action sequences pretty heavily in Wonder Woman. Being listed as a producer, writer(story credit) and even a cameo in the No Mans Land trench are clues to his involvement. This is Jenkins movie, but I think it's reasonable to assume she was amiable if not welcome to his collaboration. If Zack is indeed done directing movies for DC after Justice League, I think Wonder Woman shows WB is finally making smart decisions with writers/directors/producers. Even Joss Whedon's involvement in Justice League tells me WB wants to use everyone to their strengths.

Enjoyed Wonder Woman and it made me optimistic for the future of DC movies!

 

[Trekker4747]

I
Not too keen on the performance of Candy. I knew what they were going for, but that actress didn't sell it very well ... well for me anyway.

Well, we didn't get much of her period. Pretty much all of her scenes were in the various trailers and it's not like there's a lot to do with the character to start with. But, I kind of agree, I wish they had done a lot more with Candy and why I hope we get another period sequel that'll use her. But overall I liked her, loved it when Diana mistakes the corsets for "armor" and wonders why one would need them for waist cinching and Etta says something like, "Well those of us with more on them need to worry about it."

It's also worth remember that the only reason she got involved with WWI was because of Ares, so if there was nothing supernatural going on in WWII she might not have felt it was her place to get involved.

Just because Ares is dead doesn't mean there's no more mythical influences or powers out there manipulating things, like war. There's plenty of other super-natural beings out there for her to fight, beings who could have been involved with/behind WW2.

One common complaint I see is the use of the old British guy as Ares during the battle after the reveal. I sort-of agree it doesn't work seeing him as The God of War! With that gray British old-man mustache and his Britishness. In a flashback we see "young" Ares with a 70s porn-star look and mustache, I think that would have been better look for Ares if "Old British Man" had changed his appearance to a younger look for the battle. Because, yeah, it's hard to take the God of War seriously when you think he's moments away from asking for a spot of tea.

 

[Yanks]

Well, we didn't get much of her period. Pretty much all of her scenes were in the various trailers and it's not like there's a lot to do with the character to start with. But, I kind of agree, I wish they had done a lot more with Candy and why I hope we get another period sequel that'll use her. But overall I liked her, loved it when Diana mistakes the corsets for "armor" and wonders why one would need them for waist cinching and Etta says something like, "Well those of us with more on them need to worry abo

Yeah, that was funny.

Good points. Maybe the problem is her presence was always pretty rushed and we really didn't get enough of her.

 

[DigificWriter]

I agree with others that many of us are of the assumption she skipped WWII - but she may not have. Her attachment to that photo may just be that it's the ONLY existing image of her and Steve Trevor, and partly, yes, she wanted the original to conceal her existence from the outside world; but further for her own sentimental reasons.

We as audiences assumed she was trying to protect her own secret in BvS, but Wonder Woman dispels that assumption pretty definitively and establishes that she wanted it back because it was the only tangible link she had to Steve, which is why I can't wait to watch the two films back-to-back.

We know that the lesson she ended up learning through her experiences in WW1 was that she didn't need to protect mankind from itself, so I doubt she fought in WW2 directly unless she was asked to by either the British or American forces.

 

[JD]

Just because Ares is dead doesn't mean there's no more mythical influences or powers out there manipulating things, like war. There's plenty of other super-natural beings out there for her to fight, beings who could have been involved with/behind WW2.

Oh, yeah I know that, that was why if.

One common complaint I see is the use of the old British guy as Ares during the battle after the reveal. I sort-of agree it doesn't work seeing him as The God of War! With that gray British old-man mustache and his Britishness. In a flashback we see "young" Ares with a 70s porn-star look and mustache, I think that would have been better look for Ares if "Old British Man" had changed his appearance to a younger look for the battle. Because, yeah, it's hard to take the God of War seriously when you think he's moments away from asking for a spot of tea.

Ares' appearance in the movie actually wasn't that far off the New 52 version.

 

[LJones41]

As said, it's hard to believe she stepped aside during WW2 when millions of people were being slaughtered over simply who they were.

She can't save everyone all of the time. No one can. She couldn't save Steve . . . or stop him from engaging in his suicide mission.

 

[DigificWriter]

She can't save everyone all of the time. No one can. She couldn't save Steve . . . or stop him from engaging in his suicide mission.

Plus, as I noted, the lesson she learned from her WW1 experiences is that it's not actually her duty to protect mankind from themselves as if they're chicks in a nest, and so there wouldn't be the same kind of impetus for her to get involved directly in further conflicts that she had the first time around.

I mentioned earlier that we don't actually know exactly what motivated Diana to get involved in the fight with Doomsday, and, in thinking about her character trajectory and the ways that her solo film alters or dispels our assumptions/perceptions about what was motivating the rest of her actions during that film, I'm not sure we actually ever need to learn that information.

 

[KennyB]

I think this movie completely failed as a prequel because of this.

That's a bit extreme I think, there are other stories to tell. Since WWII DID happen there will be a in DCU reason I am sure.

 

[SPCTRE]

 

[Tosk]

Is she with you?

 

[KennyB]

Thought she was with YOU!

 

[JanewayRulz!]

I loved that exchange.

And I gotta admit, Etta made me laugh.

"Where I come from, we call that slavery."

"Oh, I like her! "

 

[wew]

This kind of begs the question about what the sequel will be like? Will it be another period piece that explains the years in between?
What about the other metahumans? Aquaman certainly isn't the only being like himself to swim the seas.. Yes, you could argue that the metafolks just decided that WWII was the humans' fight and stayed out of the way... But then again, WWII was largely fought at sea too, so it directly/indirectly impacted Aquaman's people..

The sticky issue with blending superheros into real world history is that age-old question about why they don't just jump in and end it all quickly and neatly.. Why not just wipe out Hitler and his minions with one fell swoop.. Granted, Diana isn't bullet proof, but she could certainly, with the help of a crack team, infiltrate Nazi Germany and take him out...

So something must have kept her from doing it..

I think in the comic books the Spear of Destiney was used to keep the JSA out of action in most of Europe during World War II.