Spoilers Wonder Woman - Grading & Discussion
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Sadly, having enjoyed but not loved the previous DCEU films, I didn't care for this at all. It had its good points - Pine was excellent, as were Bremner, Davies etc. The scene where the Germans and Amazons fought was great, as was the battle in the village, while the Superman: the movie style scene in the alleyway was well done.
But found Gal Gadot, while enigmatic and athletic in BvS, to be dull, wooden and totally lacking in range here. The last hour of the film plodded along, with a dull CGI showdown between Diana and Ares. Steve's sacrifice just came across as a copy of the climax of Captain America. A film starring and directed by women wasted Eva Green and Robin Wright.
This was easily the most disappointing DC movie for me yet and the weakest comic strip movie in a long time.
But found Gal Gadot, while enigmatic and athletic in BvS, to be dull, wooden and totally lacking in range here. The last hour of the film plodded along, with a dull CGI showdown between Diana and Ares. Steve's sacrifice just came across as a copy of the climax of Captain America. A film starring and directed by women wasted Eva Green and Robin Wright.
This was easily the most disappointing DC movie for me yet and the weakest comic strip movie in a long time.
You must have watched an alternate cut to me because (a) Eva Green wasn't in the film and (b), in her limited role Robin Wright was a more convincing warrior (both in character and stature) than Batfleck and Supes combined. Similarly I found that Gadot lit up the screen in every frame she stood in, her chemistry with all those around her wonderful.
It's not a great film all in all though - I wasn't fond of the CGI overuse in the Thymescira battle (though loved the concept), the "End of Level Boss" felt very much like that from Wolverine (generally thoughtful super-hero flick hamstrung by wincingly silly CGI slug-a-thon) and all of the villains were just rather dull.
Still, from the moment that WW enters the trenches to the levelling of the church spire is one of the finest and most inspired superhero action sequences put to film. Wonderful emotion, direction, staging and a stunning climax to WW's proper introduction to the DCEU. I found the humour, overall, to be spot on (spiky without relying on nods and winks), Chris Pine to be a perfect balance and foil to Gadot and the purity/naivete of WW to be refreshing.
As I said in another thread, my concern that the WWI setting would be "just set dressing" wasn't completely assuaged. Though there were nods to Suffrage, the horrors of the war, the fact that at times both sides were as cruel as each other etc, much of it still felt ad hoc and I was really hoping for fuller exploration of the how Ares' actions (or I should say, inaction) of allowing the shallowness and cruelty of man to tear itself down. Given the length of the film I feel this was a missed opportunity and would have added more weight to Diana's disgust and bemusement, AND cemented Ares' villainous status/plot more firmly.
I found it to be a fine, but flawed film. Better than I expected and, certainly, significantly better than previous DCEU output. It may not have had the grandeur, the scale, the supposed "weight" of Snyder's films, but it had a proper heart and a hero worthy of that title.
I look forward to rewatching it again in a few years to see how well it stands up, but in the meantime I pray that all of the good work done here by Jenkins and Gadot on the WW character is not undone or undermined in JL
Add: Though Trevor appears to be offed in the same fashion as Steve Rogers in CA: TFA, it's the finality that makes it work. Everyone knew that Roger's "suicide mission" was never even remotely close to being one, but I was pleasantly surprised to see Trevor make his sacrifice (even telegraphed as it was) as (a) it was final, (b) it fit the character quite neatly and (c) it came with that wonderful line: "I can save today. You can save the world".
Hugo - a 6, sliding towards a 7/10
I stand corrected, could've sworn that was Eva Green as Dr Maru.
Wright was of course a charismatic presence while onscreen but totally underused IMHO.
I saw the film with 2 friends. We don't often agree on films - with one of them in particular, he and I usually argue in a friendly manner all the way home - but we were in full agreement here, particularly about Gadot. Doesn't make ours the correct view of course, but it's unusual for us to be at one. He was much more scathing about her and the film as a whole while than I was. But I'm glad others enjoyed it.
Those aren't mutually exclusive though. Wright can be a completely convincing warrior AND be underused in the film.
What I will happily agree on is that Elena Anaya AND her character of Dr Maru were a wasted opportunity. Thin, almost pointless character which completely failed Anaya's talents.
Hugo - on Gadot... we can pleasantly agree to disagree
She may have had limited screentime, but I'd argue that her character served purpose and Wright was excellent in the role.
I'd love to have seen more of her too, but WW's journey was off-island and a solo-one at that. Just because a strong, high profile actor only gets a small amount of time to make an impact, doesn't mean the impact isn't felt.
Not a perfect example (mostly because his character is one for the ages) but Anthony Hopkins only has 16 minutes of screen time in Silence of the Lambs and, for many, he's the most memorable part of the film.
Hugo -
Plus there are rumours the character will be seen in the upcoming Justice League, presumably a flashback?? So why not cast a great actress if you intend on re-using them
I don't know what this Wonder Woman film was, have not seen any of the previous ones, but I don't remember ever walking out of a cinema after enjoying every single second of one. Even during GOTG 2 (which was really good), I found it hard to keep paying attention the whole time, and WW just had me glued to my seat from start to finish. Wow. That was seriously good.
My favourite part: There was a World War 2 film trailer before WW. Or at least I think it was WW2, because the soldiers chanted a Churchill quote, but I got so confused it took me some time to even notice Wonder Woman took place in a different war (I think I conflated it with the trailer somehow
). So, when the trailer came, I wondered why I went to watch superhero nonsense instead of a good film like that. Then – and I didn't see that coming at all – the whole of WW took place during WW1. I thought I was going to be pissed by the Ares stuff flippantly injected into such a historical period, but nope, that was amazingly done so well I was genuinely surprised.
The only reason I went to see this is because Robin Wright was in it, and then every moment of it was pure brilliance – little Diana was amazing, the very mention of the “God killer” got me giggly and teary (it was such a reverse Santa Claus lie). The entire setting of Themyscira was heavenly, Robin Wright's every single scene was more than I expected (and I expected a lot), that “never put your guard down” moment when Antiope pushed Diana's limits was pure visual arts. I remembered why I love Chris Pine as Kirk, and I would watch him in anything. His interactions with Gal Gadot were absolutely adorable, and Diana was kicking ass the entire time. Diana's off-beat but always on-point determination was something of a wonder. The humour, the everything, the sex talk... And that was just the first half hour. AND IT KEPT GOING.
Woah. Seriously. Who is Wonder Woman, and what was that? A+++++
Also: Did anybody actually see this? There were like five people in the theatre.
My favourite part: There was a World War 2 film trailer before WW. Or at least I think it was WW2, because the soldiers chanted a Churchill quote, but I got so confused it took me some time to even notice Wonder Woman took place in a different war (I think I conflated it with the trailer somehow
). So, when the trailer came, I wondered why I went to watch superhero nonsense instead of a good film like that. Then – and I didn't see that coming at all – the whole of WW took place during WW1. I thought I was going to be pissed by the Ares stuff flippantly injected into such a historical period, but nope, that was amazingly done so well I was genuinely surprised.The only reason I went to see this is because Robin Wright was in it, and then every moment of it was pure brilliance – little Diana was amazing, the very mention of the “God killer” got me giggly and teary (it was such a reverse Santa Claus lie). The entire setting of Themyscira was heavenly, Robin Wright's every single scene was more than I expected (and I expected a lot), that “never put your guard down” moment when Antiope pushed Diana's limits was pure visual arts. I remembered why I love Chris Pine as Kirk, and I would watch him in anything. His interactions with Gal Gadot were absolutely adorable, and Diana was kicking ass the entire time. Diana's off-beat but always on-point determination was something of a wonder. The humour, the everything, the sex talk... And that was just the first half hour. AND IT KEPT GOING.
Woah. Seriously. Who is Wonder Woman, and what was that? A+++++
Also: Did anybody actually see this? There were like five people in the theatre.
The movie has made over $200,000,000 worldwide, so I'm assuming there are quite a few people who've seen it. I know I saw it and the theater I was in was very full.I don't know what this Wonder Woman film was, have not seen any of the previous ones, but I don't remember ever walking out of a cinema after enjoying every single second of one. Even during GOTG 2 (which was really good), I found it hard to keep paying attention the whole time, and WW just had me glued to my seat from start to finish. Wow. That was seriously good.
My favourite part: There was a World War 2 film trailer before WW. Or at least I think it was WW2, because the soldiers chanted a Churchill quote, but I got so confused it took me some time to even notice Wonder Woman took place in a different war (I think I conflated it with the trailer somehow
The only reason I went to see this is because Robin Wright was in it, and then every moment of it was pure brilliance – little Diana was amazing, the very mention of the “God killer” got me giggly and teary (it was such a reverse Santa Claus lie). The entire setting of Themyscira was heavenly, Robin Wright's every single scene was more than I expected (and I expected a lot), that “never put your guard down” moment when Antiope pushed Diana's limits was pure visual arts. I remembered why I love Chris Pine as Kirk, and I would watch him in anything. His interactions with Gal Gadot were absolutely adorable, and Diana was kicking ass the entire time. Diana's off-beat but always on-point determination was something of a wonder. The humour, the everything, the sex talk... And that was just the first half hour. AND IT KEPT GOING.
Woah. Seriously. Who is Wonder Woman, and what was that? A+++++
Also: Did anybody actually see this? There were like five people in the theatre.
Are you actually not familiar with Wonder Woman?
My only exposure to the character was Azzarello's recent Nu52 run and I only read that because of my love for his series 100 Bullets, otherwise I would have been as clueless as you.
And if you need a fix, get yourself a bit of Hell or High Water and Z for Zacharia if you haven't already and enjoy some more Pine goodness.
And you're apparently not the only one who would watch him in anything...
Hugo - adorable
If you're interested in learning more, CBR and Io9 have both put together lists of comics to read after seeing the movie. If you don't like comics, there's also the 1970s TV series starring Lynda Carter, which is probably the most well know version of the character, which is currently airing on the retro TV station MeTV in the US. She's also been a featured character in animated series including the numerous Super Friends series from '70s and '80, the Justice League series from the 2000s, and in the currently airing Justice League Action. She's also got her own solo movie and appeared in all or at least most of the Justice League related movies DC and Warners have released as part of the DC Universe Animated Original Movies line. She's also appeared in a lot of video games, but the only ones I'm familiar with are the second and third LEGO Batman games and Injustice and it's sequel.No, I didn't know a single thing about her before seeing it.
Well, I knew there was a thread on here named Wonder Woman.
Another example of your thesis is Jack Nicholson in "A Few Good Men."
http://www.tcm.com/this-month/article/143158|0/A-Few-Good-Men.html
4 scenes which he shot over 2 weeks and for which he was paid 5 million dollars, not to mention also earning an Oscar nomination and a line most of us will quote given half a chance.
Hurrah!
While it was exciting, I'm not sure it rates up there as your "finest and most inspired superhero action sequences ever put to film." That's a tall mountain to climb, if one considers al of the great comic book-to-film action set pieces.
Trevor's yelling at WW about men on both sides being capable of evil served that purpose; early in the film, she tried to prove (in a personal way) her mother and aunt incorrect, but every step of her journey was brickwalled by cold, hard violence and darkness, so she had to adapt to this kind of world, setting up her no-nonsense, take no prisoners attitude seen in Dawn of Justice.
Not undermined--growing. She's no longer the curious optimist from her island days; she knows the nature of man, and will meet it head on with little to no mercy.
Oh, there's numerous Cap "inspired by" scenes or character motivations in this film.
You're assuming a consistency of plotting from a studio that just last year hired a freakin' trailer company to re-edit Suicide Squad, and which had no idea while making Man of Steel that Gotham and Metropolis practically adjoin each other.
I find it much more plausible that the movie's happy, pretty-sunset coda was a reshoot to send the audience out on an upbeat note, rather than the downbeat and narratively consistent one they'd originally intended. Or maybe it wasn't a reshoot at all, and Jenkins was ignoring that clear implication of BvS from the start. Either way, I'm about zero percent convinced that Snyder didn't mean for Diana to have turned her back on humanity in general when he made BvS.Oh, I promise that wasn't even remotely the only thing.
Shall we recap certain things in this movie that make no damn sense?
- Why is Diana said to be at "school" if she's the only child? Wouldn't it just be "tutoring", then? And when was she born? Given that the rest of the women are apparently immortal, why are some women about adult Diana's age while others are older? Was she a child for centuries?
- Where has Zeus been this whole time? Is he still alive? How was Ares able to kill all the gods except him? And why does he want to destroy humanity when he's the God of War who, y'know, loves war and warriors (see: Homer)? He's not the classical Ares at all, but instead a mix of Satan and Ultron, I guess?
- Why was the German ship listing/sinking? If it ran aground/hit a rock, what happened to its crew? Also, how was a ship only minutes behind a biplane? And why the day/night change? Is Themiscryra merely cloaked, is it cloaked and impenetrable, or can it only be entered sometimes? Was it penetrable because Diana did her bracelets shockwave? If so... why?
- Why was an unknown person allowed into a War Cabinet meeting? Does the concept of security not exist in wartime Britain, decades after Lincoln's assassination? And why is an American spy reporting directly to the top generals? Even Cap didn't report directly to Ike or Patton, so where was Trevor's chain of command? And, when asked why he had to go back to London, wouldn't an Army officer mention his duty, rather than shrug, hem, and haw?
- Why doesn't Diana know what marriage is? It isn't some modern concept. The Greek gods married, never mind the ancient and mythical Greeks. Are none of the Amazon married? Did the twelve volumes of the made-up erotic writer never mention the concept? Also, it's 2017. Not even a hint of a mention of Amazonian woman-on-woman action? Has Diana fooled around with any of her peers? Speaking of which, did none of them want to accompany, protect, and fight alongside their princess?
- Given that Trevor was an American officer who knew how to sail, he was probably well-educated, and almost certainly Christian-raised, if not Christian himself. So, does he really not ask any questions about this whole Olympian gods situation? Does he even gently ask if she's so much as heard of Jehovah, the Jews, Christ, Islam, all that stuff? Also, Themiscrya must be in the Mediterranean, if it can be reached by a biplane flown from an Ottoman base. Ergo, it's days/weeks of sailing to London, during which Diana would absolutely have seen land at the Strait of Gibraltar even if nowhere else, and should have grilled him on geography. And, why do they take the Thames into London rather than disembark somewhere around Cornwall, and hop a train? (London connects to the English Strait to the East, and they'd be sailing from the Gibraltar/the West.)
- I'm pretty sure "Ottoman" isn't a language. Shouldn't Diana have identified it as Turkish? It's not as though she seemed to know what the Ottoman Empire was. And, of all those languages she's studied, how has she missed all the words relating to marriage?
- Why is Diana so blase about fighting and killing once she's got actual blood on her hands? Cap grew up in the real world, being bullied and getting in fights, so he at least had some idea of what he was getting into. Diana learns that Americans are very much capable of savagery towards Chief's people, but without question attacks the German lines? And, if that part of the Front hadn't moved in years, as implied, than how did the Belgian refugees cross No Man's Land/what was with the implication the town had only recently been invaded? Hadn't it been in Central Powers hands for years at that point? And wouldn't Diana have wanted to tend to the wounded from the charge she led rather than socialize? Why do we not get one meaningful conversation between her and a non-Amazonian woman? (No, the Candy banter didn't qualify.)
- Why the hell was Trevor not clean-shaven at the party? Way to blow any semblance of a cover, dude.
- Was there a Sir Morgan in-universe, or did Ares lead his entire life from birth? The Brits are pretty rigid about who's a Knight and an MP and all that. Was Ares just goading Morgan on like he was Ludendorff? If so, then I agree with those who said his true form, flashbacks included, shouldn't have been Professor Lupin. Professor Lupin isn't scary, and I don't believe for a moment a guy who looks as mild as him could have defeated Athena, Apollo, Poseidon, Hera, Artemis, Hermes, and all the others with Zeus himself all against him.
- Did the plane have a parachute? Did Trevor even bother to check?
Overall, I found the script to be weak, and way too eager to engage with none of the fascinating questions the material practically demands be addressed. I therefore frankly care far less about Patty Jenkins returning than I do screenwriter Allan Heinberg, who has apparently spent most of his career writing for shows like Party of Five, The OC, and Grey's Anatomy, as well as various comics, not returning. And while Gadot and Pine and Jenkins did fine jobs, a movie can only be somewhat better than its script in the best of cases. ("Story by" credit also went to Zack Snyder and Jason Fuchs, who gave us Ice Age: Continental Drift and Pan. Daring suggestion: maybe hire a woman writer next time?)
That said, at the screening I attended, crowds of mostly women whooped with pleasure numerous times, and that's great. Noted, they were usually doing so when Diana was killing German grunts, not Nazis or HYDRA-Nazis, which I found somewhat uncomfortable, but still, I'm glad they (and many others, men and women) liked it. In the end, for all the speculation, setting this in WW1 was virtually meaningless apart from making a superficial break from The First Avenger, whose ending (and much, much more) it copied anyhow.
I'm all for more women-led blockbusters, and movies in general. This was a mediocre one with a great lead.
B-
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