Why was anyone not promoted in finals
- Thread starter TEH BABA
- Start date
Umm, why should Uhura know Klingon? How many US switchboard operators back in the fifties spoke Russian?
Uhura has never been said to be a skilled linguist. Skilled in operating and repairing communications equipment, yes. Sometimes lauded for her musical skills and feminine charm. But linguistics? Never.
Timo Saloniemi
Uhura has never been said to be a skilled linguist. Skilled in operating and repairing communications equipment, yes. Sometimes lauded for her musical skills and feminine charm. But linguistics? Never.
Timo Saloniemi
THE REAL LIFE REASON is that Brannon and Braga kicked the great Manny Coto to the curb and wrote the final episode themselves...probably in about five minutes on the back of a cocktail napkin.
No. There shouldn't be any jobs like that on the flagship of Starfleet, especially on the bridge. When Uhura, Chekov, and Sulu sat there trying to figure out Klingon, I thought it was one of the worst things that I've seen on Star Trek, right up there with Turnabout Intruder. Just my two cents, after all. I guess I want to believe that that far in the future there will no longer be people with low levels of education--it's education that can bring about the world of Star Trek, a world without racism, poverty, etc. If folks who value education and learning for everyone from ditchdiggers to cops to presidents is an elitist, then an elitist indeed I am.
Edited for a spelling error--
Edited for a spelling error--
So essentially, if I don't get degrees on X number of subjects, I should be shunned and ridiculed?
I see nothing wrong with Uhura being satisfied with her lot as a switchboard operator. She obviously had enjoyable hobbies and good social connections, and never displayed ambition as regarded her job (see her taking the Old Town transporter station job in ST4). That's the sort of person she was. And you want to take that away from her because she isn't good enough for you?
I do hope the real future won't turn out to be such an extreme meritocracy that ordinary people no longer have a place there.
Timo Saloniemi
I see nothing wrong with Uhura being satisfied with her lot as a switchboard operator. She obviously had enjoyable hobbies and good social connections, and never displayed ambition as regarded her job (see her taking the Old Town transporter station job in ST4). That's the sort of person she was. And you want to take that away from her because she isn't good enough for you?
I do hope the real future won't turn out to be such an extreme meritocracy that ordinary people no longer have a place there.
Timo Saloniemi
I believe that it is you who are doing the ridiculing. I happen to think that ordinary people should be educated, education is my job, my vocation, and my passion--so sue me. I believe that the more education people have, the more hope there is for the human race--I'm not talking about information dumps or degrees, I'm talking about the kind of education that involves lots of interaction between students, learning different points of view, discussing ideas, that sort of thing. I know that an education doesn't bring wisdom, life experience is equally important--but that's equally important, not all important. I'd like to think that in the future, a well rounded education would make you very ordinary indeed.
I don't believe that a starship crew with a mission of seeking out new worlds and new civilizations would have a switchboard operator on the bridge--the crew would include a linguist on the bridge. The thought that in the future starship crews would be staffed by monolingual people is laughable. If adhering to canon in Trek means accepting the limits of the 1960s mindset, then Trek deserves to die a natural death--if it doesn't grow and change and evolve, what's the point of continuing it? Growth and evolution is Hoshi-types replacing Uhura-types. The movies were shackled by TOS the series, nothing wrong with that--they were entertaining enough.
The character of Uhura is tied to the 1960s mindset, and the character of Hoshi is tied to the 21st mindset. Trek literatgure in the 1990s and beyond turned Uhura into a skilled linguist instead of a switchboard operator--that's the Uhura that I prefer.
I don't believe that a starship crew with a mission of seeking out new worlds and new civilizations would have a switchboard operator on the bridge--the crew would include a linguist on the bridge. The thought that in the future starship crews would be staffed by monolingual people is laughable. If adhering to canon in Trek means accepting the limits of the 1960s mindset, then Trek deserves to die a natural death--if it doesn't grow and change and evolve, what's the point of continuing it? Growth and evolution is Hoshi-types replacing Uhura-types. The movies were shackled by TOS the series, nothing wrong with that--they were entertaining enough.
The character of Uhura is tied to the 1960s mindset, and the character of Hoshi is tied to the 21st mindset. Trek literatgure in the 1990s and beyond turned Uhura into a skilled linguist instead of a switchboard operator--that's the Uhura that I prefer.
Why does Uhura have to be a linguist? From what we saw in TOS and the movies she was not only operating the equipment but was able to repair it as well. She was probably a highly trained technician/engineer specializing in communication devices. She also seemed to have some skill in code breaking. My dad was involved in similar work when he was in USAF in the 60s.
But Kirk had no language skills, either. ST3 confirms he can't speak Klingon - at best, he can fake it by repeating some words he overheard. Isn't that a worse offense? Kirk if anybody should be a contact specialist.
I'd actually think foreign languages would be a dead art by the 23rd century. That's what Universal Translators would do in the real world. Language skills would be no more relevant in communication than calligraphy is today.
As for switchboard operators being people unworthy of respect, I challenge you to work as one for a day. Apparently, whatever Uhura did could not be automated in the 2260s - her position was kept crewed even during the M-5 simulation where Sulu, Chekov, Kirk and possibly even Spock were explicitly rendered useless!
Timo Saloniemi
I'd actually think foreign languages would be a dead art by the 23rd century. That's what Universal Translators would do in the real world. Language skills would be no more relevant in communication than calligraphy is today.
As for switchboard operators being people unworthy of respect, I challenge you to work as one for a day. Apparently, whatever Uhura did could not be automated in the 2260s - her position was kept crewed even during the M-5 simulation where Sulu, Chekov, Kirk and possibly even Spock were explicitly rendered useless!
Timo Saloniemi
You might meet another civilization for which the universal translator doesn't work. People might communicate in other kinds of ways--communincation as a skill will never die. And damn, don't put words in my mouth--I never said that switchboard operators were unworthy of respect. I simply said I wouldn't expect to find one on the bridge of a starship.
Here's what you want to hear--you win, you're right, what was I thinking? A character dreamed up by a skirt-chasing adulterer who cast one of his girlfriends in the role is the absolute epitome of what we'll find on the bridge of a starship two hundred years from now. Really, what was I thinking, that Gene Rodenberry is absolutely right about bridge officers and we have to stick to his ideas more than 40 years later. All hail the Great Bird of the Galaxy and switchboard operators everywhere. In fact, I wish that we still had switchboard operators, because I do in fact prefer a cell phone free world. That M-5 situation absolutely could happen just as it was written, I'm positive that there are no logical flaws in that script. Every single solitary thing in scripts from the 1960s should in fact be taken AS facts. You win, so take your victory and leave me be.
Obviously, something that I said struck a nerve. You'll never agree to anything that I say. I'm an elitist pig. I need to take Star Trek scripts a hell of a lot more seriously--I certainly will from now on, I promise!
Here's what you want to hear--you win, you're right, what was I thinking? A character dreamed up by a skirt-chasing adulterer who cast one of his girlfriends in the role is the absolute epitome of what we'll find on the bridge of a starship two hundred years from now. Really, what was I thinking, that Gene Rodenberry is absolutely right about bridge officers and we have to stick to his ideas more than 40 years later. All hail the Great Bird of the Galaxy and switchboard operators everywhere. In fact, I wish that we still had switchboard operators, because I do in fact prefer a cell phone free world. That M-5 situation absolutely could happen just as it was written, I'm positive that there are no logical flaws in that script. Every single solitary thing in scripts from the 1960s should in fact be taken AS facts. You win, so take your victory and leave me be.
Obviously, something that I said struck a nerve. You'll never agree to anything that I say. I'm an elitist pig. I need to take Star Trek scripts a hell of a lot more seriously--I certainly will from now on, I promise!
Honest apologies - I didn't mean to be quite that confrontational. And indeed you did not disparage switchboard operators, at least not directly.
I do loathe the idea that people with less than X amount of skills should be considered out of place in a utopian future. And I do loathe it that portraying a female who is less educated than a male, or educated in different areas, is labeled as "sexist". Education is all fine and well, but it can also be the ultimate tool of tyranny if taken too seriously.
As for whether there are "logical flaws" in Star Trek or not, my take on this is that what we are given is what we get. The world where Uhura and Kirk live is not necessarily one that you or I would find ideal, nor need it be one that would make obvious sense. Such are the attributes of the real world, too...
We may take some, ditch some in order to shape the Trek reality into what we want to see. But in that case, we may be undermining the work of the writers who created what they felt like creating - or we may miss our opportunity to enjoy something unexpected that takes us down different, sometimes a bit foreboding paths of imagination.
I'm not sure that linguistics skills would be of direct help in that case. If the language is so foreign that the UT can't handle it, how does knowledge of familiar languages help in deciphering it?
I'm sure linguistics is not dead in the 23rd or 24th century as such. Calligraphy lives today, after all. And somebody has to program the UT... (Unless that's done by another UT or other artificial intelligence!)
We even know of apparent hobbyists who pride in their language skills, such as the first officer of USS Aries in TNG "The Icarus Factor". I just feel that the art and science is not required for getting assigned starship communications duty, as we are actually shown that starship communications duty can be handled without mastery of Klingonaase.
Timo Saloniemi
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