Why the hate for Alex Kurtzman?

[TRON JA307020]

Someone in a different thread brought up Generations, and it got me thinking....

People didn't take much issue with the concept of The Nexus, a basically magical energy ribbon that travels through space and is a gateway to a realm where all you're fantasies come true, you never age, that you can travel throughout, and even leave, using simply a thought.....

But the concept of a subspace fold opening up and producing an improbability field, where music is played and people are involuntarily made to sing show tunes..... that's to big a pill to swallow?

Just a thought.

The nexus is also very much a time machine. It can take you back to any time. If you stay in the nexus you can live in any time period of your own past but its not real. This aspect of the nexus is like a holodeck but on a much grander scale. But not really like the Rhapsody episide at all.

The musical episode was ok but I found it silly. They were singing what they were feeling or going to say. Ever since that Buffy the Vampire Slayer musical everyone wants to do one. None ever come close to the Buffy one to be honest. I really hope they only do one. Another one would just be repetitive.

 

[Tuskin38]

They were singing what they were feeling or going to say.

That's how a lot of musicals work.

Rivals is very high on my 'yeah, no, that premise just doesn't make any sense' list, along with the Chakotay consciousness jumping episode in Voyager and anything involving DNA. It wasn't a particularly great story anyway, but the probability thing lost it even more points as far as I'm concerned.

90% of the science in Trek doesn't make any sense.

The musical is consistent with all the previous eras of weird subspace anomaly nonsense.

It's fine if you don't like the episode, but it's not the wackiest thing to happen in trek. It fits perfectly into the universe.

 

[TRON JA307020]

That's how a lot of musicals work.


90% of the science in Trek doesn't make any sense.

The musical is consistent with all the previous eras of weird subspace anomaly nonsense.

It's fine if you don't like the episode, but it's not the wackiest thing to happen in trek. It fits perfectly into the universe.

The wackiest thing was the crew turning into cartoons. Also cartoon characters coming to the real word of snw and knowing they were somehow different being 3 dimensional. That episide was the strangest one. I would place the musical above that one

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

It's fine if you don't like the episode, but it's not the wackiest thing to happen in trek. It fits perfectly into the universe.

It really doesn't. Here's my evidence: I'm a Star Trek fan who has seen all of Star Trek, but five minutes into the episode I was taken out of the story by the bizarre explanation for what was happening.

 

[HotRod]

The wackiest thing was the crew turning into cartoons. Also cartoon characters coming to the real word of snw and knowing they were somehow different being 3 dimensional. That episide was the strangest one. I would place the musical above that one

Yeah, that's not what happened. While the two shows are obviously produced using different visual mediums, they exist within the same universe. Boimler didn't travel from an animated universe into a live action universe, he traveled through time. That he went from cartoon to live action, is meant to only be noticeable to us, the viewing audience of the fictional program.

 

[Tuskin38]

Here's my evidence: I'm a Star Trek fan who has seen all of Star Trek,

So have I

 

[BillJ]

It really doesn't. Here's my evidence: I'm a Star Trek fan who has seen all of Star Trek, but five minutes into the episode I was taken out of the story by the bizarre explanation for what was happening.

“I, Mudd”

 

[Tuskin38]

The wackiest thing was the crew turning into cartoons.

That was a hallucination causing by the Orion alcohol.

and knowing they were somehow different being 3 dimensional.

And that was a joke, not what literally happened.

 

[Citiprime]

Someone in a different thread brought up Generations, and it got me thinking....

People didn't take much issue with the concept of The Nexus ...

Ummmm... Do people really exalt the plot of Generations as good?

It's not remembered as one of the better Trek films. It's usually considered a wasted opportunity, where people have complained about Kirk's death for the past 31 years

AND ... both writers of the movie (Ronald Moore and Brannon Braga) are actually on the movie's commentary talking about how the Nexus plot DOES NOT WORK.

MOORE: "The Nexus was a problem. The Nexus was a difficult concept that we were never able to crack and Kirk’s death didn’t pay off the themes in the way we wanted it to pay off. "​

There have been a LOT of things which have occurred in the history of Star Trek. But just because it was on-screen doesn't mean it validates doing anything. I don't look at the space hippies or "Spock's Brain" and think that means it makes any plot justifiable as good television.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

“I, Mudd”

All you have to buy into for that one is 'Mudd found a planet of human-looking robots' and 'they can be confused by acting weird'.

 

[HotRod]

It really doesn't. Here's my evidence: I'm a Star Trek fan who has seen all of Star Trek, but five minutes into the episode I was taken out of the story by the bizarre explanation for what was happening.

It really does. Here's my evidence: I'm a Star Trek fan who has seen all of Star Trek, but five minutes into the episode I was taken in by the story of the fascinating explanation for what was happening.

An explanation that was no stranger than half the shit we've seen throughout the entire franchise. If a few decades ago it had been the crew of TNG or VOY that had run into a subspace fold that made them sing, I have my doubts that anyone would have batted an eye if Data or Kim gave the exact same explanation for what was happening.

 

[Ray Hardgrit]

I would have been even more annoyed if it had happened on TNG or Voyager as I like those shows more.

 

[fireproof78]

It really does. Here's my evidence: I'm a Star Trek fan who has seen all of Star Trek, but five minutes into the episode I was taken in by the story of the fascinating explanation for what was happening.

An explanation that was no stranger than half the shit we've seen throughout the entire franchise. If a few decades ago it had been the crew of TNG or VOY that had run into a subspace fold that made them sing, I have my doubts that anyone would have batted an eye if Data or Kim gave the exact same explanation for what was happening.

Agreed. The tolerance for made up techno babble seems to decrease with newer shows.

TNG being the show that said thought was the basis of all reality. So don't stop thinking.

 

[BillJ]

All you have to buy into for that one is 'Mudd found a planet of human-looking robots' and 'they can be confused by acting weird'.

Crew find anomaly that makes them act weird. Problem solved.

 

[The Wormhole]

I have my doubts that anyone would have batted an eye if Data or Kim gave the exact same explanation for what was happening.

Only because they would have said Some Sorta or Some Kinda which Of Course is all it takes for Treknobabble to be believable.

 

[Firebird]

Look - Beverly Crusher fucked a candle ghost, and we all went along with it for the last 31 years.

An anomaly making the crew sing due to a probability field ain't that much more weird.

 

[fireproof78]

Only because they would have said Some Sorta or Some Kinda which Of Course is all it takes for Treknobabble to be believable.

 

[ananta]

I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, Subspace Rhapsody would have been much easier to swallow if there hadn’t been actual music accompanying the crew singing; music that just came from nowhere and was heard by the characters as they sang. That was just fecking stupid, even by Trek standards.

 

[Tosk]

Look - Beverly Crusher fucked a candle ghost, and we all went along with it for the last 31 years.

An anomaly making the crew sing due to a probability field ain't that much more weird.

We still make fun of Bev's tryst with Ronin's wick to this day, so I wouldn't use it as a way to try and stem criticism of SNW's performance phenomenon.

 

[Newt]

I don’t hate the man. Not found of everything with his name on it.
Discovery is not really my cup of tea
Strange new words i can take it leave it, but better than discovery
Reboot Star Trek. Like it with a big tub of popcorn but not as good as the originals.
Section 31 never going to watch it
Picard had its moments, wasn’t a fan of new characters but was fine mainly with the legacy characters but had a few complaints.
Lower decks watched it never really enjoyed it much but ah well. A comedy animated show with a Rick and Morty style didn’t really work for me.

Kudos if you disagree.
Maybe future treks will be better. Still plenty of trek that I enjoy re-watching