Why the hate for Alex Kurtzman?

[Detached Nacelle]

I have no desire to see Picard's geriatric brigade ever again (they threw the Picard S1 cast over the side ).

I'm sorry, but I do not see them as the ne plus ultra of the franchise.

I wonder what I would have done with a Picard season 3. I would have found a way to keep Rios somehow like his being in the past is actually important for the present. Probably taken Jurati's big pointy Borg ship out of the equation through its destruction. Tied the solar flare transwarp corridor thing in with the robothulhu at the end of season 1 so it was all one big important arc. Seven being a sort of cadet would have played well with Elnor and she would have had a healthy relationship with Raffi. Built on Picard and Laris and after all Q did in season 2 give Picard the chance to finally be in a stable two-way relationship. I would remember Soji exists and she can do a sort of Clarice and Hannibal thing with Narek because oh yeah he exists too. Who knew.

I'm not a writer but I could probably cobble something together that feels like a 'proper' for lack of a better term season 3.

 

[Lord Garth]

I'm happy with PIC Season 3 as TNG's Swan Song. I'm satisfied with that as an ending for them. They've had their "Star Trek VI". So having them all together again and on the Enterprise-D, I don't need to see that again. I wasn't happy with Nemesis. With "All Good Things", I knew they were going to movies, so it never felt "final" even in 1994. It's also only an adventure that Q and Picard remember first-hand, except for the poker table scene. With the ending of PIC S3, all the main characters remember it first-hand.

Although I don't disagree with others who've said before that it should've been a separate project from Picard as it was during the first two seasons.

Going forward, after the current shows have run their course, I prefer either Post-Picard or Post-Discovery. It doesn't absolutely have to be either of those, but it's my preference. I'd like Captain Seven and the Enterprise-G, but it doesn't have to be that. SFA being Post-Disco, I'm all for. It's an era that desperately needs to be further fleshed out. By the end of DSC S5, I still didn't feel like I was as familiar with that era as I think I should've been by then.

As far as the concepts, as long as the execution is good. I was for Section 31 as a concept, but the execution of the TV Movie was terrible. So, concept isn't everything. Execution matters more.

EDITED TO ADD:

PIC Season 3, according to Patrick Stewart himself, was mandated by Paramount to be a TNG Reunion. So, that's what was going to happen no matter what. Cutting-and-pasting a post of mine from last July where I cited where he said this.

Making It So, by Patrick Stewart, Page 435-436:

"For Season Three, our last, Terry Matalas, by then Picard's showrunner, told me that the studio wanted a full Next Generation reunion. Ugh, just what I had firmly said I didn't want. But that had been three years ago. Now I was less resistant, having enjoyed working with Jonathan, Brent, Marina, John, and Whoopi. As an executive producer, I had a say in how we might go about achieving such a reunion. I told Terry, "I like the idea, provided that we don't bring them back all at once. Let's trickle them back in.​

​

It was essential to me that each TNG character came into the picture because he or she had a specific contribution to make and it wasn't just sentimental window dressing. If Jean-Luc had changed so much over the years, so, too, surely, had the other members of the Enterprise crew. The writers, bless them, took this to heart."​

​

I'm glad I bought that book!

 

[Danja]

Seven being a sort of cadet would have played well with Elnor and she would have had a healthy relationship with Raffi.

Seven earned her commission (She had eighteen years of military experience. This is in addition to the four years she spent on Voyager and her expertise with Borg tech.)

I wouldn't have started her as a cadet.

 

[Detached Nacelle]

Seven earned her commission (She had eighteen years of military experience. This is in addition to the four years she spent on Voyager and her expertise with Borg tech.)

I wouldn't have started her as a cadet.

Thus the sort of qualifier, like the big things, will you follow the rules and not go running off like a Fenris Ranger? How many lightyears would you like your restraining order against Chakotay to be? There was a comic or something where she was taking Picard's diplomatic Kobayashi Maru. I don't mean she would go through 4 years as a cadet and then start off at ensign. But unlike Kira she can't just hop into a rank on a sort of exchange program as the Rangers don't seem to share that same sort of structure. A provisional commander but she would take some tests at the Academy largely because Picard, Raffi and Elnor are all based there too and then inducted as a full commander afterwards.

 

[Danja]

Thus the sort of qualifier, like the big things, will you follow the rules and not go running off like a Fenris Ranger? How many lightyears would you like your restraining order against Chakotay to be? There was a comic or something where she was taking Picard's diplomatic Kobayashi Maru. I don't mean she would go through 4 years as a cadet and then start off at ensign. But unlike Kira she can't just hop into a rank on a sort of exchange program as the Rangers don't seem to share that same sort of structure. A provisional commander but she would take some tests at the Academy largely because Picard, Raffi and Elnor are all based there too and then inducted as a full commander afterwards.

I've said this elsewhere in the past.

Gene Roddenberry modeled Starfleet on the U.S. Navy. The Navy has a Direct Commission Officer School (DCOS). It's where newly-minted direct commission officers go to learn the nuts and bolts of being in the U.S. Navy -- traditions, procedures, basic seamanship, etc..

I would think that Starfleet has a similar program in place. They wouldn't have just pinned some pips on her collar and sent her off cold.

Thus the sort of qualifier, like the big things, will you follow the rules and not go running off like a Fenris Ranger?

Seven joined Starfleet because she WANTED to be there (Maybe she was tired of being a Fenris Ranger?)

The woman isn't stupid. She went through four years on Voyager. She knew what she was getting into.

 

[CoveTom]

It's kinda crazy in hindsight just how well Harve Bennett ended up working with the TOS films. Having the studio parachute in some "random outsider" could have easily gone sideways. Granted Leonard Nimoy served as a major veto point for keeping things on a recognizable path. His films might not be the most cinematic, but he definitely "got" Star Trek... Shatner too.

I am a Harve Bennett fan myself, perhaps moreso than any of other producer of Trek. I still think the best creatively was when Bennett and Meyer were paired. It was the right mix of respect for what has come before (Bennett) and a desire to push the envelope and try new things (Meyer).

Nimoy, I'm less enthused about from that perspective. I think he was, in descending order, a great actor, a good director, and a mediocre writer and producer. I still maintain my basic premise that actors should never, under any circumstances, be given influence in the creative direction of the properties they are acting in. In most cases, when Bennett and Nimoy disagreed, I would be on the Bennett side. And in basically *every* case in which Bennett and Shatner disagreed, I would be on the Bennett side.

 

[Citiprime]

"Standalone" in the context you're referring to isn't really done on TV at all anymore. Even in the 90s, TNG and Voyager were looked at as backwards since the majority of their episodes were basically disposable one-offs that didn't provide anything to the viewers who tuned in each week.

SNW's approach, standalone episodes that are usually resolved each week but with character arcs that run throughout the season is far more modern and is the best approach to make the show accessible to casual viewers and reward those who do watch every episode.

The one thing I'll add is the reason Berman-era Star Trek leaned into standalone episodes is that Paramount wanted Star Trek to be as accessible as it could be from week-to-week, especially airing in syndication where a local network might be running a random assortment of episode in the middle of the night when they weren't airing first-run episodes. Ira Steven Behr and Ron Moore have spoken in the past how it was like pulling teeth to get the executives at Paramount to go along with the serialization of DS9, especially devoting the first 6 episodes of season 6 to the Dominion War arc, because they believed it would hurt DS9's syndication.

While those old seasons of TNG, DS9, and VOY had "disposable" one-offs, it was made where the audience could enter at any point and probably not be lost. Although, because of that, you do get episodes of Berman-era Trek which is guilty at points of characters going through extreme trauma which should be major life-altering. But next episode they're as right as rain (e.g., the many trials and tribbleations of Chief O'Brien).

That reasoning is something to consider given one of the justifications for some of the creative decisions with modern Star Trek has been appealing to new viewers. That you need all of these niche iterations of Star Trek to appeal to different viewers and a younger audience. If you want to make it as accessible as possible, where someone doesn't need to have watched Star Trek V to understand who Sybok is when he shows up in Strange New Worlds, then maybe the standalone model with very minimal character arcs might work much better.

On the other hand, the streaming model throws out all of the pressures we had back when a TV show was airing on broadcast TV. We're not in a situation where if you missed an episode you had to wait months for another chance to see it as a rerun, or even for the DVD release. All the episodes are right there to binge. So some of the pressures and limitations aren't the same.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

I'm happy with PIC Season 3 as TNG's Swan Song. I'm satisfied with that as an ending for them. They've had their "Star Trek VI". So having them all together again and on the Enterprise-D, I don't need to see that again. I wasn't happy with Nemesis. With "All Good Things", I knew they were going to movies, so it never felt "final" even in 1994. It's also only an adventure that Q and Picard remember first-hand, except for the poker table scene. With the ending of PIC S3, all the main characters remember it first-hand.

Although I don't disagree with others who've said before that it should've been a separate project from Picard as it was during the first two seasons.

Going forward, after the current shows have run their course, I prefer either Post-Picard or Post-Discovery. It doesn't absolutely have to be either of those, but it's my preference. I'd like Captain Seven and the Enterprise-G, but it doesn't have to be that. SFA being Post-Disco, I'm all for. It's an era that desperately needs to be further fleshed out. By the end of DSC S5, I still didn't feel like I was as familiar with that era as I think I should've been by then.

As far as the concepts, as long as the execution is good. I was for Section 31 as a concept, but the execution of the TV Movie was terrible. So, concept isn't everything. Execution matters more.

EDITED TO ADD:

PIC Season 3, according to Patrick Stewart himself, was mandated by Paramount to be a TNG Reunion. So, that's what was going to happen no matter what. Cutting-and-pasting a post of mine from last July where I cited where he said this.

Making It So, by Patrick Stewart, Page 435-436:

"For Season Three, our last, Terry Matalas, by then Picard's showrunner, told me that the studio wanted a full Next Generation reunion. Ugh, just what I had firmly said I didn't want. But that had been three years ago. Now I was less resistant, having enjoyed working with Jonathan, Brent, Marina, John, and Whoopi. As an executive producer, I had a say in how we might go about achieving such a reunion. I told Terry, "I like the idea, provided that we don't bring them back all at once. Let's trickle them back in.​

​

It was essential to me that each TNG character came into the picture because he or she had a specific contribution to make and it wasn't just sentimental window dressing. If Jean-Luc had changed so much over the years, so, too, surely, had the other members of the Enterprise crew. The writers, bless them, took this to heart."​

​

I'm glad I bought that book!

I'm actually glad that the TNG Reunion happened the way it did.
I wanted closure, I got it.
It also setup a potential new series in ST: Legacy.
Hopefully, one day, it can happen.

Seven joined Starfleet because she WANTED to be there (Maybe she was tired of being a Fenris Ranger?)

The woman isn't stupid. She went through four years on Voyager. She knew what she was getting into.

Don't forget that she has VAST Borg acquired knowledge from countless StarFleet Officers including many Captains.

Her experience on Voyager for 4 years under Janeway.

Her experience as a member of the Fenris Rangers.

She's also had 23 years since the end of Voyager & the start of Season 3 of ST:Picard. to grow up and learn about StarFleet, the Alpha Quadrant, etc.

So she's done ALOT of maturing in that time, including getting initially rejected by StarFleet Academy, despite being personally recommended & endorsed by Admiral Janeway.

But given her actions in the recent crisis, I think StarFleet had a change of heart and fast tracked her in given her extensive knowledge base & experience.

She's a unique officer with unique qualities that can't be easily replicated.

Losing her a second time would be STUPID of StarFleet despite whomever rejected her the first time.

 

[somebuddyX]

What about lightly serialized, like the way "Supernatural" or "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" did it's serialization.

Where there are a few "Critical Core Eps" spread throughout the season related to the main season arc or larger story arc, but alot of it is episodic in between.

I like the way DS9 and SG1 did their semi-serialisation, for lack of a better word, in that episodes wouldn't necessarily carry over onto the next, but episodes would be written as a response to previous episodes, ie the throughline of the Founders or Kira's resistance cell, or SG-1 with the second gate and the NID or introducing the Replicators. Buffy was really good at following character arcs, like I think Season 3 is really strong with Faith's arc, and considering how that was supposed to play out is really something. Supernatural was often really strong with that too, like Season 5 was great.

 

[The Wormhole]

The one thing I'll add is the reason Berman-era Star Trek leaned into standalone episodes is that Paramount wanted Star Trek to be as accessible as it could be from week-to-week, especially airing in syndication where a local network might be running a random assortment of episode in the middle of the night when they weren't airing first-run episodes. Ira Steven Behr and Ron Moore have spoken in the past how it was like pulling teeth to get the executives at Paramount to go along with the serialization of DS9, especially devoting the first 6 episodes of season 6 to the Dominion War arc, because they believed it would hurt DS9's syndication.

It was still outdated and backwards, even at the time. Indeed, many other shows in the 90s, including shows produced by Paramount had elements of serialization to one degree or the other, and even had successful runs in syndication. Star Trek became the proverbial dinosaur by the time the late 90s rolled around, as evidenced by the fact the Dominion War was considered for a long time by Trek fans to be "innovative" and "daring." Which for Star Trek, sure, it was, but compared to other story arcs done in the 90s on other shows, it was really rather pedestrian.

 

[Tuskin38]

They've already got the "adventures of the crew of the USS Enterprise" show after much lobbying from fans, so they should be free to experiment with other shows.

It also probably helped the Akiva Goldsman had been pushing for one internally since DSC Season 1.

She had eighteen years of military experience

Not the kind applicable to Starfleet, and she wasn't an individual for those 18 years so she had no first hand experience.

 

[nightwind1]

Regardless of who is actually responsible, there  does seem to have been a notable dumbing-down of the franchise since 2009.

Please clarify. Provide credible cites to support your assertion.

 

[TRON JA307020]

Please clarify. Provide credible cites to support your assertion.

Why does he have to do that? Star trek was dumbed down in 2009. A lot of critics felt that. A lot of fans believe that. The Kelvin movies were made to appeal to the masses. They modeled them more after star wars. Much more action. Crew members split so we get a fractured stories.They even changed phasers to look like star wars blaster bolts.Thats what JJ abrams wanted. STD followed the movies. SNW finally brought back some TOS elements in that it slowed the action and had a lot more of what star trek once was. Still not as great as TOS or the Berman era shows but better than what we wete getting.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Why does he have to do that? Star trek was dumbed down in 2009. A lot of fans believe that. The Kelvin movies were made to appeal to the maases. They modeled them more after star wars. Much more action. Crew members split so we get a fractured stories.They even changed phasers to look like star wars blaster bolts.Thats what JJ abrams wanted. STD followed the movies. SNW finally brought back some TOS elements in that it slowed the action and had a lot more of what star trek once was. Still not as great as TOS or the Berman era shows but better than what we wete getting.

None of that is dumbing down.

Star Trek always wanted to appeal to the masses. It's not highbrow entertainment. Its core is action/adventure with something to say.

Crew members split into A and B stories is a hallmark of Berman Trek. It's not "fractured stories".

DISCO has its action set pieces, so did all the other shows. They're a little more dynamic because that's what the new SFX tech allows. But the characters still do their monologs and problem solving like the other shows did.

 

[fireproof78]

The Kelvin movies were made to appeal to the maases.

So was TOS.

Much more action.

So was TWOK, especially compared to TMP.

stories.They even changed phasers to look like star wars blaster bolts

Saw that in TNG with the Borg, then in DS9 and Voyager.

Whatever Abrams did Star Trek had already been there, done that, and got the T shirt.

 

[Sketcher]

Technobabble was a whole level of dumb all on its own.

 

[Nerys Myk]

So was TWOK, especially compared to TMP.

Unless you saw TMP's trailer

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Talk about bait and switch!!!

 

[Danja]

Saw that in TNG with the Borg, then in DS9 and Voyager.

They used whatever Paramount had lying around the studio.

The Borg got a cinematic visual upgrade on Voyager after FC.

 

[fireproof78]

They used whatever Paramount had lying around the studio.

The Borg got a cinematic visual upgrade on Voyager after FC.

They had blaster bolts lying around the Paramount lot?

 

[fireproof78]

Some examples of blaster bolts in TNG:

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