Why the hate for Alex Kurtzman?

[fireproof78]

For me, I feel like some of these shows care more about action than worldbuilding. And at that point it just becomes so generic action sci-fi and nothing about it makes it distinctive as Star Trek.

Sometimes it becomes a situation where an hour of Star Trek is more pew-pew-pew than having an interesting, meaningful debate within a science-fiction context that connects to the human condition.

The finale for Star Trek: Discovery opens with a 20-ish minute fist fight that must have cost a fortune in visual effects, as the characters slide between different realities. BUT.. the discussion about what to do with the technology that the entire season leads up to lasts less than 5 minutes.

When the actor from Section 31 argues that people want TNG, I think there's a part of the audience that feels this version of Trek is just superficial, and not thoughtful in the way the old shows were in how it treated the concepts and ideas.

I see.

I guess I view Trek differently which is why it never bothers me that there is action. I never fund Trek to be always meaningful nor is it always action. But, I expect action because TOS was described as an "action/adventure" show.

Mileage will vary

 

[BillJ]

Star Trek fired my imagination in a way that simply hasn't been replicated since. I keep waiting for that moment where modern Trek wows me, and I'm still waiting.

 

[fireproof78]

Star Trek fired my imagination in a way that simply hasn't been replicated since. I keep waiting for that moment where modern Trek wows me, and I'm still waiting.

I mean, I haven't had that since Beyond.

I don't think Trek ever will the same way as when I was younger. I don't think I'll hold it against Trek though.

 

[BillJ]

I don't think Trek ever will the same way as when I was younger. I don't think I'll hold it against Trek though.

I don't necessarily hold it against it, I just have had a hard time staying engaged with it for a while. I love TOS, more or less like the Berman years, loved the Abrams trilogy (there was a sense of spice that Trek had long been missing). CBS Trek? I just feel like the effort isn't there to push the boundaries, which isn't necessarily the fault of the production staff, because most of us know that corporate edicts override everything else, but I still mostly feel like I'm watching covers of Trek's greatest hits.

Though it is obviously a 'mileage may vary' type of situation.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Action / adventure is fine. But if it lacks pathos and emotional connection for the characters for the audience to empathize with, then it can just come off as largely forgettable. I don't love Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan for its incredible space battles, as amazing as they are, I love it for the emotional impact it has on me as an audience member. If Spock had just walked out of that reactor chamber with some pseudoscience techno babbling explanation as to how he was able to survive and they just moved on to the next adventure, then The Wrath of Khan would just be another mid-ranking episode with cool space battles.

 

[fireproof78]

Action / adventure is fine. But if it lacks pathos and emotional connection for the characters for the audience to empathize with, then it can just come off as largely forgettable. I don't love Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan for its incredible space battles, as amazing as they are, I love it for the emotional impact it has on me as an audience member. If Spock had just walked out of that reactor chamber with some pseudoscience techno babbling explanation as to how he was able to survive and they just moved on to the next adventure, then The Wrath of Khan would just be another mid-ranking episode with cool space battles.

Which is where Discovery and SNW succeed, and Picard and Lower Decks languish. I love the characters of Pike and Burnham so I'm engaged with the struggle.


But, again, that's me. Pike has engaged me since "The Cage". Michael was an interesting character because so often I see logic praised for its efficacy yet how often it ignores the human need for empathy and understanding. Michael had to grow through that and I found it timely with society at the time as well as my own life.

Does it "fire the imagination" as @BillJ puts it? No but it keeps me engaged and connected. I guess I don't need my imagination fired by fiction.

Mileage will vary.

 

[Nyotarules]

Thoughts?

Because trek fans are far from logical and the clickbaiters want to make loads of money

“I’m terrified of how it’s going to be received, because it’s not the Trek people want. The Trek that people want, the Trek that we all want, is just 1,000 more episodes of TNG. Everyone’s always furious that they’re not getting more TNG, whilst at the same time, when TNG came out, everybody hated it. So this is going to come along and it’s not going to feel like any Trek that they’ve ever seen.“

A lot of Trek fans only want the Trek they grew up with, there was no big love for TNG in the late 80's. If social media was around, 40 years later, the TNG haters might be embarrassed at what they wrote as spotty faced teenagers, if social media was around in 1986.
I enjoyed it at the time, but if the future of Trek was a TNG do over for every new show not everyone would have jumped for joy (yes, I include myself).
So can fans just watch a new Trek show and then judge it afterwards, is that so hard to do? Or even better, not slag off a show that you have not watched.

 

[BillJ]

If you had told me, in 2018, that Discovery would end up being the most original show of the CBS Trek years, I might have died from laughing.

Yet, here we are.

 

[Nyotarules]

If you had told me, in 2018, that Discovery would end up being the most original show of the CBS Trek years, I might have died from laughing.

Yet, here we are.

Eating your words with antimatter icecream?

 

[fireproof78]

May your words be sweet for tomorrow you may have to eat them.

 

[UssGlenn]

If social media was around, 40 years later, the TNG haters might be embarrassed at what they wrote as spotty faced teenagers, if social media was around in 1986.

No "if", the Usenet archives are out there, they are just a pain to search.

October 1987
"Well, they can lose the psychic. I'm sorry, but the way they portrayed
her ESP etc, it just doesn't mesh with the Star Trek universe. It's too
much the plot device."

"Lt. Yaaa [or whatever] needs better writing. There's the bare plot-
thread of a character there, buried under all that bad writing. Make
her better, or else lose her."

"So are bumby-Klingons the only extant version? Were all
those 60's klingons half-breeds, or what?"

 

[Nerys Myk]

Current franchise runner= Whipping boy.

Everything bad is his fault. Anything good is someone else's.

 

[Will_Carter]

He's an easy target. Just like Kathleen Kennedy.

Yes and no. Unlike kurtzman. Kennedy literally put the target on herself and started screaming 'shoot me' with her outright/deliberate antagonistic tendencies towards the fanbase.

 

[Will_Carter]

No "if", the Usenet archives are out there, they are just a pain to search.

Coming from the transformers fandom.

'TRUKK NOT MUNKY' will forever be burned into my mind in shame....

 

[BillJ]

Yes and no. Unlike kurtzman. Kennedy literally put the target on herself and started screaming 'shoot me' with her outright/deliberate antagonistic tendencies towards the fanbase.

You do realize it is entertainment? She’s giving you what you want, a whipping boy.

 

[Will_Carter]

You do realize it is entertainment? She’s giving you what you want, a whipping boy.

I didn't want what she was selling. I got screamed at for not gong to buy what she was selling and got called everything under the sun for not lining up like a good little consumer even though I was also told 'this is not FOR you.'

So I stayed the hell away because i have enough issues as is.

 

[Dukhat]

I blame social media and the general population of uninformed morons on the planet that have easy access to it.

Kurtzman is just fine. So was Berman before him, until he ran out of ideas. Practically the only showrunner who actively hurt the Star Trek franchise was Gene Roddenberry (and Leonard Maizlish) during the start of TNG. But the 'Roddenberry is God' crowd (of mostly uninformed fans) will never understand this.

 

[BillJ]

I blame social media and the general population of uninformed morons on the planet that have easy access to it.

I actually blame fans and creators both. Fans that have to know every detail the moment they happen and creators that now see themselves as stars.

 

[Will_Carter]

I blame social media and the general population of uninformed morons on the planet that have easy access to it.

Kurtzman is just fine. So was Berman before him, until he ran out of ideas. Practically the only showrunner who actively hurt the Star Trek franchise was Gene Roddenberry (and Leonard Maizlish) during the start of TNG. But the 'Roddenberry is God' crowd (of mostly uninformed fans) will never understand this.

I'm one of those that disliked Discovery at first because I didn't like what was on display, but warmed up when the behind the camera folk stopped chest pounding 'THIS IS THE REEEAAAAAL PRIIIIIME TIMELINE SUCKIT YOU BASEMENT DWELLING LOSERS! SUCKIT! BUY OUR STUUUUF! BUY IIIIIT'

And went to the 31st century instead, where the same cast with the same show runners got to spread their wings and be in general pretty solid.

Same group gave us SNW, and that show was awesome from the start.

One show, discovery, was them trying ot be egomaniacs.

The other show, Strange New Worlds, was LITERALLY the kind of thing I wanted (mostly. wasn't a fan of xenomorph esque gorn babies eating their way out of people.) So for me it is a case of ego and then coming back with what the custoemr base actually wanted after getting humbled.

We even got interesting discussion over the place of genetic engineering with Una.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I'm one of those that disliked Discovery at first because I didn't like what was on display, but warmed up when the behind the camera folk stopped chest pounding 'THIS IS THE REEEAAAAAL PRIIIIIME TIMELINE SUCKIT YOU BASEMENT DWELLING LOSERS! SUCKIT! BUY OUR STUUUUF! BUY IIIIIT'

I guess I missed those press conferences.