why is star trek original series disliked

[Warped9]

I feel that many people who dislike TOS are looking at the show through their modern, jaded eyes and views. When you look at the show in relation to what else was on TV at that time in the 60's, it is one of the greatest shows of all time.

^ This.

I've long come to the view that some people just can't get their heads around the 1960s styling of it, and would probably have the same problem with any show from that era. TOS is best watched in the same mindset as one watches the Adam West version of Batman. Both have got a campy sensibility that they never try to shy away from, but that's part of their charm. It certainly isn't a detraction.

THIS is exactly what I was commenting on and what really pisses me off. The Adam West Batman and Star Trek cannot be lumped together in any way whatsoever. Batman was deliberate camp while TOS never was. If someone things TOS is camp then I strongly suspect they do not really understand what camp is.

 

[Lance]

I feel that many people who dislike TOS are looking at the show through their modern, jaded eyes and views. When you look at the show in relation to what else was on TV at that time in the 60's, it is one of the greatest shows of all time.

^ This.

I've long come to the view that some people just can't get their heads around the 1960s styling of it, and would probably have the same problem with any show from that era. TOS is best watched in the same mindset as one watches the Adam West version of Batman. Both have got a campy sensibility that they never try to shy away from, but that's part of their charm. It certainly isn't a detraction.

THIS is exactly what I was commenting on and what really pisses me off. The Adam West Batman and Star Trek cannot be lumped together in any way whatsoever. Batman was deliberate camp while TOS never was. If someone things TOS is camp then I strongly suspect they do not really understand what camp is.

And I think the people who associate it with being high drama fail to see the fun which is inherent in the format. I acknowledge there's definitely a middle ground to be found though.

 

[Warped9]

^ This.

I've long come to the view that some people just can't get their heads around the 1960s styling of it, and would probably have the same problem with any show from that era. TOS is best watched in the same mindset as one watches the Adam West version of Batman. Both have got a campy sensibility that they never try to shy away from, but that's part of their charm. It certainly isn't a detraction.

THIS is exactly what I was commenting on and what really pisses me off. The Adam West Batman and Star Trek cannot be lumped together in any way whatsoever. Batman was deliberate camp while TOS never was. If someone things TOS is camp then I strongly suspect they do not really understand what camp is.

And I think the people who associate it with being high drama fail to see the fun which is inherent in the format. I acknowledge there's definitely a middle ground to be found though.

Something being occasionally fun and something being deliberate mockery are two distinctly different things. The Adam West Batman (and shows like Get Smart) deliberately spoofed and mocked the subject matter. That was their reason for being. Star Trek could do humour (and better than any spinoff series or film), but it was never deliberate mockery of the subject matter.

 

[Warped9]

One could make a case for "The Trouble With Tribbles," "A Peice Of The Action" and "I, Mudd" deliberately veering into camp, particularly the latter two episodes. But two or three episodes deliberately humourous episodes out of seventy-nine does not make the series predominantly camp as a whole.

I am presently rewatching The X-Files. There are episodes with an obvious humourous slant, but they are very few. The series did exhibit an evident humour running throughout (much like TOS or Stargate or many other series), but it certainly isn't seen as a lighthearted show even by a long shot.

 

[Kemaiku]

I didn't think TOS was significantly disliked, I've seen plenty of support for it from this community ever since I joined and constant discussions, artwork, representation (nearly all positive) for it all along.

The volume of artwork, fanfiction, fan productions, prop work and even things as simple as the amount avatars here still show a strong support and love of the show.

If anything, as Daniel mentioned, TNG is a lot more frequently ridiculed these days. I grew up on it but I still prefer TOS to it.

 

[tmosler]

I have always hated the charge of "cheesy" and "campy" against Star Trek. Yes, there are occasional elements of those in the show, but they are occasional and minor. They were not intentional and/or pervasive aspects of the show as a whole.

I still think it is one of the very best SF shows of all time and it remains my overall favourite series. I certainly prefer it over anything else that followed in its name even though I have enjoyed a decent portion of TNG.

One big thing I love about TOS was its vision. I don't mean the humanistic ideal that most seem to focus on. I mean its vision to dare to deal with big ideas despite being hampered by constraints in time and resources. It was effectively doing a mini science fiction movie every week at a time when the resources were barely suitable to the task. But they did it anyway and pulled it off repeatedly with incredible creativity. Something like TOS deserved the equivalent resources of a feature film, but that was impossible on a television production budget (even today) and yet they went ahead and did it anyway.

I don't care how many people might laugh and deride and dismiss TOS because in my eyes many of those individuals seem blinded by lots of flash and polish. But TOS had substance that a lot of film and television SF lacks today as much as back in the days.

TOS might also be resented on another level: by being first. The spinoffs owe their existence to it and yet none of the spinoffs to date have managed to eclipse TOS in the way it continues to resonate in the greater collective consciousness, and in the scientific community. TNG briefly eclipsed TOS for a few years when it was in production, but once that time was over the spotlight went back to the original. DS9, VOY and ENT will never be remembered or resonate as the original did and continues to do. I think TNG remains the most successful spinoff overall, but it too is also overshadowed by TOS. Although anything is possible I seriously doubt we will see a TNG reboot of any kind or even a return to the TNG era should Star Trek return to television. But they did reboot TOS (much as I loathe the way they did so) and I suspect it will be rebooted yet again when Abrams' tenure is done.

Star Trek TOS greatly influenced me just as it has greatly influenced many people. It helped define what I look for in entertainment and in storytelling. It came along at just the right time to click with the right generation who would "get it." It wasn't the first effort to make smart science fiction, but it was arguably the most successful. Perhaps not in its initial debut, but certainly in the following years. The show grew more popular in syndicated reruns during the 1970s than when it originally aired. Something in it was reaching that generation of viewers.

And here we are still discussing and debating it going on five decades later.

I loved Star Trek in the dark days of the '70s when it wasn't yet recognized for what it was even by those who owned it and would later learn to exploit it. I wasn't deterred by the naysayers then and I won't be put off by any new generation of naysayers either.[/

THANKS FOR YOUR GREAT POST

 

[Noname Given]

I love TOS. I grew up in the 60's, so I don't have a hangup about the 'dated' aspect of the show. The themes are just as relevant today as they were then. More so, perhaps - just turn on the news channel.

^^^
Why type a response when this one fits me to a tee?

 

[Irishman]

After reading many fourms on tos i am confused at the negativity toward the show. As much as i like tng and for the most part ds9 tos was always my favorite. Most of the negativity revolves around it being cheesy,dated, and goofy which i can see in some episodes (the naked time and this side of paridise ) but for me this makes it even more enjoyable. Also in addition to the new remastered effects the character interaction between spock, mcoy, and kirk and more focus on exploration then tng makes it my favorite star trek show. Lastly there was lots more action then tng ever had and i feel it had the best humor which for the most part other trek series failed at. You can comment on whether you like the show and why below

I don't know where you might have heard such sentiments.

 

[The Old Mixer]

I think this post might have been better off in General Trek, where some of the people who don't like TOS could have shared their views. You're preaching to the choir here.

 

[Kinokima]

I don't think I want to read negative opinions about TOS so I am glad it's been mostly people saying why it's great.

I got upset enough when someone bashed McCoy on this thread.

 

[CaptainBearclaw]

Wait, someone dislikes TOS?! Who is this person?!!!? WHERE IS HE?!?! LET ME KILL HIM!!!!!!

 

[J.T.B.]

One could make a case for "The Trouble With Tribbles," "A Peice Of The Action" and "I, Mudd" deliberately veering into camp, particularly the latter two episodes. But two or three episodes deliberately humourous episodes out of seventy-nine does not make the series predominantly camp as a whole.

People seem to use the word "camp" a lot and I'm not sure I understand how they mean it. Traditionally it meant an exaggerated and conscious theatricality or outrageousness, and especially that which referred to or hinted at gay culture.

The episodes mentioned above were just comedy, or at least comedic, episodes. It was quite common at the time for dramatic or action shows to have occasional comedic episodes. Gunsmoke had them, as did The Big Valley, Wild Wild West, The Man from U.N.C.L.E. and so on. Bonanza was practically half comedy in its later seasons.

 

[Warped9]

One could make a case for "The Trouble With Tribbles," "A Peice Of The Action" and "I, Mudd" deliberately veering into camp, particularly the latter two episodes. But two or three episodes deliberately humourous episodes out of seventy-nine does not make the series predominantly camp as a whole.

People seem to use the word "camp" a lot and I'm not sure I understand how they mean it. Traditionally it meant an exaggerated and conscious theatricality or outrageousness, and especially that which referred to or hinted at gay culture.

The episodes mentioned above were just comedy, or at least comedic, episodes. It was quite common at the time for dramatic or action shows to have occasional comedic episodes. Gunsmoke had them, as did The Big Valley, Wild Wild West, The Man from U.N.C.L.E. and so on. Bonanza was practically half comedy in its later seasons.

In "A Piece Of The Action" the Iotians as 1920's gangsters were a spoof, an exaggeration of a stereotype perpetuated in 1930's films. And in "I, Mudd" we see the androids act in an exaggerated manner of how such things might be seen in B movie sci-fi. And note that in "What Are Little Girls Made Of?" and "Requiem For Methuselah" androids are not depicted in such an exaggerated way.

 

[trevanian]

Including naturally-occurring humor within drama is just good character-based storytelling, whether it is TREK or STREETS OF SAN FRANCISCO or HAVE GUN. Part of what makes the TOS characters so lovable is that they aren't just about business, they seem to have lives outside of the plot of the week, and they react in a human rather than programmed way to situations, and that means you don't always just have stock replies, and sometimes wit comes out of that, just as it does in life.

One reason I found the ModernTrek/Berman era so unappealing (outside of DS9) was because these people didn't have that life to them (except guest stars and occasionally Riker.) Y'know, like just having one time when they get yet ANOTHER emergency panic alert from Starfleet and Riker could say, 'Someone's probably lost a tribble.'

 

[RandyS]

One could make a case for "The Trouble With Tribbles," "A Peice Of The Action" and "I, Mudd" deliberately veering into camp, particularly the latter two episodes. But two or three episodes deliberately humourous episodes out of seventy-nine does not make the series predominantly camp as a whole.

People seem to use the word "camp" a lot and I'm not sure I understand how they mean it.

Basically, anything that isn't "dark", with characters wallowing in constant "angst" and "Daddy issues" is dismissed as "camp". "Fun", an characters who act like actual people is not allowed.

This view is incorrect. These stories have their place, and I can enjoy them on occassion, but now pretty much EVERYTHING has become that. And it has become tedious.

 

[CaptainBearclaw]

^You're right, where did this mentality start anyway. Why does what was once escapist fiction have to keep getting pounded with depressing issues? And why is it we dismiss anything not following this mentality as CAMP?!

 

[JJohnson]

I didn't think TOS was significantly disliked, I've seen plenty of support for it from this community ever since I joined and constant discussions, artwork, representation (nearly all positive) for it all along.

The volume of artwork, fanfiction, fan productions, prop work and even things as simple as the amount avatars here still show a strong support and love of the show.

If anything, as Daniel mentioned, TNG is a lot more frequently ridiculed these days. I grew up on it but I still prefer TOS to it.

I grew up on the original series before adding Next Generation to my viewing. I remember seeing Kirk and all at 5 AM every Saturday morning - Wolf in the Fold, Doomsday Machine, City on the Edge of Forever...all the classics. I understood the fx were limited, which is why I thoroughly loved the remastering for replacing and updating most of the fx (planets, ship shots being the biggest upgrades. Transporters still looked 2d and like 2 shots pasted together) to make the show more watchable overall. TNG-Remastered is very much missing the boat in not doing any updates at all (no new entering orbit, no new establishing shots, no updated transporter fx, no new ships to replace the 10K Excelsior, Miranda, Oberth ships, etc.).

I can understand and appreciate the original series for what it was, and it was a product of the 60s, but it showed a positive vision of the future, unlike so many shows today (Continuum, BSG, etc). That was a great part of it, that we could overcome all the problems of today and come out better for it.

 

[YJAGG]

I love TOS I gre up watching the reruns for 42 years, are they all winners, nope , but it's Trek

 

[JJohnson]

One could make a case for "The Trouble With Tribbles," "A Peice Of The Action" and "I, Mudd" deliberately veering into camp, particularly the latter two episodes. But two or three episodes deliberately humourous episodes out of seventy-nine does not make the series predominantly camp as a whole.

People seem to use the word "camp" a lot and I'm not sure I understand how they mean it.

Basically, anything that isn't "dark", with characters wallowing in constant "angst" and "Daddy issues" is dismissed as "camp". "Fun", an characters who act like actual people is not allowed.

This view is incorrect. These stories have their place, and I can enjoy them on occassion, but now pretty much EVERYTHING has become that. And it has become tedious.

I can agree with you. Personally, I'm getting or have already gotten very burned out on dark, angsty, conspiracy, angry, snarky, pessimistic TV. Endless CSI/NCIS/Law&Order spinoffs, Twilight, Continuum, Orphan Black, X-Files, Battlestar Galactica '04, ST: Enterprise in a few spots, and dozens of others. Why can't we have optimistic TV again? The Original Series characters weren't angry or full of odd personal problems just to give them faux depth. McCoy and Spock bantered back and forth, but you could tell they were friends, ditto the rest of the senior staff. They could quip and joke while getting their mission done. In comparison, I would prefer a new Trek series more in the mold of the original series over Voyager, DS9, TNG, or Enterprise in the overall mood of the series.

 

[Warped9]

I tend to agree that many interpret something with a generally positive aspect to it to be campy. If they really need a dismissive word then perhaps what they want is "corny" which means something much different than campy.

TOS could do all kinds of stories yet throughout it was generally positive and idealistic, things that are seen as "campy" today. And note that a lot of film and television SF tends to be edgier, somewhat darker and cautionary about the future.

Stargate: SG-1 was a lot like TOS in terms of its storytelling and by contemporary standards it, too, might be labeled as campy, but it (like TOS) was certainly nothing of the kind. Same with Babylon 5.