Why is First Contact actually so beloved by the fandom?

[Agony_Boothb]

For instance Picard appeared to come over a big part of his trauma by the end of "I, Borg" by dealing with Hugh, which brings up the fact that the Borg shouldn't be a collective anymore because of his return to them. Yet there is, without any in-movie explanation.

This shows a gross misunderstanding on your part of how people deal with trauma. Trauma never really goes away you just learn to live with it. But there can be times that certain events can bring all those compartmentalised feelings rushing back. Picard being faced with a Borg invasion of his ship and seeing his crew assimilated first hand would absolutely have caused him to react the way that he did.

 

[Sci]

For instance Picard appeared to come over a big part of his trauma by the end of "I, Borg" by dealing with Hugh,

Trauma is not something you "come over" or "get over." It doesn't have an end. It's not the fucking cold. Trauma is a long-term mental health condition that must be managed on a long-term basis. Its effects will sometimes be stronger and sometimes be weaker depending on the situation. Yeah, Picard was feeling better at the end of "I, Borg," but that doesn't mean his PTSD wouldn't come roaring back when faced with the full force of the Collective again in FC.

The idea that Picard was acting "out of character" is just false. It is based upon an unrealistic understanding of how PTSD works.

which brings up the fact that the Borg shouldn't be a collective anymore because of his return to them. Yet there is, without any in-movie explanation.

1) I don't think a major motion picture aimed at a general audience of millions of people has an obligation to produce an in-universe explanation for why it's not following up on a story idea from a mid-tier TNG episode that earned a 12.8 Neilson rating when it aired four years earlier.

2) The in-universe explanation is pretty obvious: Hugh's newfound sense of individuality failed to spread to the rest of the Collective. I don't think that even needs a verbal explanation.

And there is the issue of Zefram Cochrane being an entirely different character (physical as well as mentally)

That's not a bad thing. That's imbued in the fundamental premise of the movie: That oftentimes our heroes are not who we imagined they were and are far more flawed than we had wanted to think. To attack this is to attack the premise of the story.

and that first contact with the Vulcans happened in 2063, while it appeared that the hell hole Earth in 2079 appeared to be in EaF hadn't have contact to any other species at that time.

1) That is a very minor detail and it absolutely is not a good reason for them to change a film that cost tens of millions of dollars.

2) There is no contradiction there. It is entirely plausible that Vulcan made first contact with Earth in 2063 but parts of Earth were still in a state of regression and oppression in 2079. History does not always move in a linear fashion. I mean, hell, slavery was abolished in the United States and numerous black people were elected to state legislatures and Congress in the 1860s, and then by the 1890s the U.S. had established Jim Crow and kept black folks under horrific oppression for decades thereafter. Progress can occur and then be stymied and then be regained; it happens in real life, and it's plausible that it would happen after First Contact.

 

[Oddish]

True. Trip said that after First Contact, poverty and hunger and other issues were pretty much gone in less than a hundred years. Not overnight, and not without pushback by people who didn't want things to change. Jim Crow was a classic example of that.

 

[Swedish Borg]

I don't buy the guy living in a shantytown creating the first FTL ship thing. If there is anything that will need huge financing, that would be it. I hardly think the head of a billion-dollar operation would live under such conditions especially if his dream is to live in Honolulu surrounded by naked women...

 

[Unimatrix Q]

Maybe i was wrong about the way PTSD was depicted in First Contact, it just seemed to me like they simply wanted to make Picard into an action heroe.

The comparison of the situation in 2079 with Jim Crow was also a really good point. I actually think similar about this and wrote some posts about the possibility of such a scenario already in other threads and on reddit. Just would have been great if there was something about what really happened during these times on Earth in the movie instead of mostly using the setting just for some comedy. And then came ENT, actually being a great opportunity to do some exploring of these parts of Trek history, and did almost nothing about this (beside of giving rise to new questions).

About the Borg issue, i can see your points but it would have been easy to mention Hugh and what happened because of him (maybe in a dialogue between Picard or Data with the Borg Queen), instead of stupidly retcon the Borg Queen into the events of "Best Of Both Worlds".

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I don't buy the guy living in a shantytown creating the first FTL ship thing. If there is anything that will need huge financing, that would be it. I hardly think the head of a billion-dollar operation would live under such conditions especially if his dream is to live in Honolulu surrounded by naked women...

Remember Riker's line earlier in the movie, the one about "very few governments left".

He didn't say there were NONE left. Only "very few".

We can assume the USA was one of these governments, given that (in an early TNG episode) a 52-star US flag is said to come from 2033 to 2079. Since Trek's WW III took place in 2053, the US must therefore have survived the war.

So it is possible that Cochrane got his money from the US government. We don't know for a FACT that this is true (he could also have been bankrolled by wealthy individuals) but it's possible.

 

[Oddish]

That makes sense. Anyone who could build something like that with their own money could have already retired to a tropical island with naked women, no warp ship required.

 

[Swedish Borg]

Remember Riker's line earlier in the movie, the one about "very few governments left".

He didn't say there were NONE left. Only "very few".

We can assume the USA was one of these governments, given that (in an early TNG episode) a 52-star US flag is said to come from 2033 to 2079. Since Trek's WW III took place in 2053, the US must therefore have survived the war.

So it is possible that Cochrane got his money from the US government. We don't know for a FACT that this is true (he could also have been bankrolled by wealthy individuals) but it's possible.

Yes, but in that case, he would have used a minuscule part of that money to build more comfortable living facilities. That's only human. Or are we supposed to think that Cochrane was some kind of a saint in spite of hard evidence to the contrary???

 

[JediKnightButler]

Speaking only for myself, it's one of the most action-packed, tightly edited of the TNG movies with one of the best TNG villains and probably the most accessible of the TNG films to a widespread audience. Plus, it works both as an inspirational story about humanity's first contact with the greater galaxy and a quasi-horror action flick with good special fx!

 

[Pikirk_Janesisko]

I don't buy the guy living in a shantytown creating the first FTL ship thing. If there is anything that will need huge financing, that would be it. I hardly think the head of a billion-dollar operation would live under such conditions especially if his dream is to live in Honolulu surrounded by naked women...

It's one of the worst aspects of the movie. The way they portray the creation of the warp drive is ridiculous, kinda like your dad fixing the car on the garage of the house. No explanation, no nothing. Are you saying that whole village/town is working on that warp drive? It begs an explanation... Zefram Cochrane doesn't even act like a scientist, it feels forced. He looks the type of person that should be paying someone to do the work for him and get all the credit. At least it would've been more interesting.

First Contact is the most overrated film I ever seen. I hate using this word but this the only time I really mean it. I still can't understand why people praise this movie so much. It's the complete opposite of what TNG is supposed to be, thoughtful and introspective. Instead we get an extremely contrived story, full of plot holes and Picard acting like an action hero. Like, the Borg randomly decided to travel through time, right when the Enterprise is following them. I can't supend my disbelief when there's so many contrivances.

The Borg Queen ruined the perception of the Borg, transforming them into cyberzombies instead of a menacing creatures.

 

[suarezguy]

It's actually really funny that First Contact always gets mentioned as one of the best star trek movies, considering that Picard acts out of character in it

At worst he acts believably in-character out-of-character and that's really impressive.

the Borg Queen

Well at least she wasn't as bad as she later got Seriously she is a very controversial character and change but at least the fans think she was, even if a bad idea, an understandable change and fine in the film itself.

instant nanoprobe assimilation

I liked that.

and that it was ultimately responsible for ruining the Borg.

I disagree. The Borg were already weakened with "Descent" yet I think the film is a worthy, impressive sequel to TBoBW. It is hard to do any follow-up to TBoBW but FC was worthy then Voyager did ruin them (not in "Scorpion" but "Dark Frontier" or at least after it).

Not to speak of the fact that it's mainly just a scifi action movie wirh the fate of the Federation at stake. Something that a lot of the same fans criticize Disco and Star Trek Picard for...

TNG didn't have a lot of action but it did have some and with the Borg it was also appropriate and enjoyable to have some. I think most fans also like TWoK and TUC where the action and high stakes also felt appropriate, earned. And something else that makes the film particularly enjoyable compared to the other films is it (though still focused most on Picard and Data) is a lot more of an ensemble.

It would have bored the shit out of the audience to just listen to that monotone group Borg voice for two hours.

Or even more than 20 minutes.

 

[suarezguy]

the Borg shouldn't be a collective anymore because of his return to them.

The Borg were obviously made to be, or more had always been, a lot bigger, the change was that Hugh's impact was just on his small immediate group (which was already vaguely implied by "Descent" and made sense).

there is the issue of Zefram Cochrane being an entirely different character (physical as well as mentally)

I admit I watched FC many times before I watched "Metamorphosis" but I thought the episode and character were neither really memorable or good, the FC version at least as good.

 

[Spock .]

The Borg were obviously made to be, or more had always been, a lot bigger, the change was that Hugh's impact was just on his small immediate group (which was already vaguely implied by "Descent" and made sense).

I've been wondering for a while... How does the collective actually work together if each cube is separate? It seems that there is only one borg queen who is not limited to her prior physical form. So why was Hugh's impact so limited?

Just wondering.

 

[suarezguy]

Picard acting like an action hero

He had some action but he wasn't portrayed as some great action hero hero, Worf and Data played as much or more role in the action, and Picard's aggressiveness/vengefulness was ultimately shown to be wrong.

 

[Takeru]

It's one of the worst aspects of the movie. The way they portray the creation of the warp drive is ridiculous, kinda like your dad fixing the car on the garage of the house. No explanation, no nothing. Are you saying that whole village/town is working on that warp drive? It begs an explanation... Zefram Cochrane doesn't even act like a scientist, it feels forced. He looks the type of person that should be paying someone to do the work for him and get all the credit. At least it would've been more interesting.

First Contact is the most overrated film I ever seen. I hate using this word but this the only time I really mean it. I still can't understand why people praise this movie so much. It's the complete opposite of what TNG is supposed to be, thoughtful and introspective. Instead we get an extremely contrived story, full of plot holes and Picard acting like an action hero. Like, the Borg randomly decided to travel through time, right when the Enterprise is following them. I can't supend my disbelief when there's so many contrivances.

You're nit wrong, there are many plot holed and it doesn't really hold up when you think about it but the movie is entertaining so people are more forgiving.

The Borg Queen ruined the perception of the Borg, transforming them into cyberzombies instead of a menacing creatures.

I never had a problem with the queen though, the borg were originally conceived as an insectoid species and only became cyborgs because those were cheaper to make but a lot of the original insect idea survived both in their behavior and in the terminology (drones, hive …) so adding a queen did make sense to me.

 

[UssGlenn]

I've been wondering for a while... How does the collective actually work together if each cube is separate? It seems that there is only one borg queen who is not limited to her prior physical form. So why was Hugh's impact so limited?

Just wondering.

I would assume that there are basic firewalls between cubes. That would allow the collective to cut off an infected toe before it can take down the entire collective. That's just good network design.

 

[Spock .]

I would assume that there are basic firewalls between cubes. That would allow the collective to cut off an infected toe before it can take down the entire collective. That's just good network design.

That makes sense.

 

[freethinker]

First Contact is a fine movie, thrilling and captivating. I particularly like the way they handle the Borg. The Borg Queen is played convincingly and her enigmatic answers to Data are just what they should be. In fact the Borg make more sense this way IMHO.

 

[Pikirk_Janesisko]

You're nit wrong, there are many plot holed and it doesn't really hold up when you think about it but the movie is entertaining so people are more forgiving.


I never had a problem with the queen though, the borg were originally conceived as an insectoid species and only became cyborgs because those were cheaper to make but a lot of the original insect idea survived both in their behavior and in the terminology (drones, hive …) so adding a queen did make sense to me.

I think that's the problem though. I get the impression that people are way too forgiving. I don't mind plot holes or minor continuity issues honestly, but when the plot holes starts affecting the logic of the characters and the setting, the story gets very preposterous and it gets me out of the movie. I don't find the action sequences particularly entertaining, even episodes like "Starship Mine" had better action and Picard acts like an action hero in that one although in a way that makes sense for his character.

What was particularly great about the Borg was the mystery surrounding them. They were frightning species that remove your individuality and assimilated whole worlds and societies, that's all we needed to know. The Borg Queen ruined that and then Voyager made this aspect even worse.

 

[freethinker]

The Borg queen is a mystery in and of itself. How did she survive the destruction of the first cube? Why is she so interested in Picard? Does she have emotions? She certainly seems to but it could be all an act.