Why is First Contact actually so beloved by the fandom?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Unimatrix Q, Jun 18, 2021.

  1. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    It's actually really funny that First Contact always gets mentioned as one of the best star trek movies, considering that Picard acts out of character in it, a lot of continuity issues, the Borg Queen, instant nanoprobe assimilation and that it was ultimately responsible for ruining the Borg.

    Not to speak of the fact that it's mainly just a scifi action movie wirh the fate of the Federation at stake. Something that a lot of the same fans criticize Disco and Star Trek Picard for...
     
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  2. Iamnotspock

    Iamnotspock Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    "It's actually really funny that First Contact always gets mentioned as one of the best star trek movies, considering that I personally don't like it"?

    Picard acts out of character with good reason and is called out for it. What continuity issues? What don't you like about the Borg Queen? What are your specific issues with nanoprobe assimilation? Was it responsible for "ruining" the Borg? How so? Is it just a SF action movie with the fate of the Federation at stake?

    It'd help if you could elucidate a little.
     
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  3. Relayer1

    Relayer1 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I just don't like it. Or any of the TNG movies tbh.
     
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  4. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That's because it IS one of the best Trek movies. :shrug:

    And the Borg Queen was necessary for dramatic purposes. It would have bored the shit out of the audience to just listen to that monotone group Borg voice for two hours.
     
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  5. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    TE="Iamnotspock, post: 13804559, member: 10580"]"It's actually really funny that First Contact always gets mentioned as one of the best star trek movies, considering that I personally don't like it"?

    Picard acts out of character with good reason and is called out for it. What continuity issues? What don't you like about the Borg Queen? What are your specific issues with nanoprobe assimilation? Was it responsible for "ruining" the Borg? How so? Is it just a SF action movie with the fate of the Federation at stake?

    It'd help if you could elucidate a little.[/QUOTE]

    For instance Picard appeared to come over a big part of his trauma by the end of "I, Borg" by dealing with Hugh, which brings up the fact that the Borg shouldn't be a collective anymore because of his return to them. Yet there is, without any in-movie explanation.

    And there is the issue of Zefram Cochrane being an entirely different character (physical as well as mentally) and that first contact with the Vulcans happened in 2063, while it appeared that the hell hole Earth in 2079 appeared to be in EaF hadn't have contact to any other species at that time.

    There are other examples, but these were the ones that are the most blatant imo.
     
  6. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Commodore Commodore

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    They didn't know if that would actually work, and indeed, individuals are added to the collective everyday without issue, so not sure why Hugh would be different.

    But to your larger point, the most important thing a movie needs to be is a good and entertaining movie, that is consistent with itself. If a Star Trek Movie meets that criteria you will find much leeway in analysis of the minutia. Wrath of Khan has similar discontinuities, but it's a good movie so we ignore them.
     
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  7. Amaris

    Amaris Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Physically, there's not much to be done about that. I mean, Glenn Corbett was kind of dead at the time.

    Mentally? It could make perfect sense. When you're living in a post-war society, and people you love are dying and you're losing hope, you might get raging drunk, regardless of your good intentions. It's not difficult to say that after meeting the Vulcans, Cochrane cleaned up and saw a new outlook for humanity.

    I think James Cromwell did an excellent job blending the hopeless drunk, the hopeful scientist, and the cynical asshole all into one character. FC isn't my favorite movie, but James isn't at fault for his performance, or for any deficits regarding the film, IMO.
     
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  8. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Because it introduces the amazing E, nice new uniforms, the Defiant and the Borg at movie quality, perhaps the best soundtrack of them all, 24th century spacesuits, walking on the hull, great new rifles, the most important moment of Earth's future history, who the first aliens were, how the first warp flight happened, essentially the beginning of it all.

    He overcame part of it in Family, then overcame another part of it in I Borg, then overcame another part of it in FC, and still had enough left to overcome in Impossible Box. Hugh led to a group of 'rogue' Borg getting separated from the collective, not the whole collective collapsing. Was that ever said in Descent?
    Didn't Cochrane say in Metamorphosis that the companion made him younger and healthier? Perhaps on the other side of the planet, things were still in the 'postatomic horror', while things in Montana were kinda ok in comparison. Why would the whole planet be in the same state? The Q trial probably recreated some ECON trial, and it seems the ECON lost the war.
     
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2021
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  9. Oddish

    Oddish Rear Admiral Fleet Captain

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    What made First Contact work so well, in my opinion, was that it made a point of borrowing so much from the shows. The Defiant, Worf's use of Klingon cutlery, Picard's imaginative use of the holodeck, and the Borg returned to their "Best of Both Worlds" scariness. And some great surprises, like Robert Picardo's unexpected cameo.

    Also, it was directed by Jonathan Frakes, who knew the show and the cast inside and out.
     
  10. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    It's a really enjoyable movie.
     
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  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    One, Star Trek is an action adventure franchise at its core so First Contact is following that a lot more. Two, Picard acts out of character because of the trauma. Trauma doesn't just get cured. It can be managed, controlled, and even fall out of the mind. But, psychology is finding that trauma isn't just in the brain, but in the body, and some times in unconscious memories. So, Picard may have handled it just fine in the controlled environments in the Enterprise, until the environment shifted to "like a Borg Cube." Now, the Enterprise is no longer his safe place and he is back in the trauma memory.

    The Borg Queen was dumb ultimately served well as a face of the Borg, and giving an avatar for the crew to be fighting against.

    Finally, continuity issues? Cochrane was not going to look the same, obviously due to actors as well as explicit dialog in "Metamorphosis" and his contact with the companion. Not sure why any small continuity issue would impact enjoyment of the film. If the film is a well told story that engages the viewers, as First Contact has demonstrably done with many, then continuity issues are not a problem.
     
  12. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Vice Admiral Admiral

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    First Contact is the only TNG Movie I can fully endorse. Discovery and Picard are also my favorite Star Trek series... so it's probably not a surprise, in my case.

    With the whole Action Picard thing, he's feeling pretty bloody-minded because the Borg are an emotional trigger for him. And it's been eating away at him for the past six years. So I can buy it in First Contact, because I believe it, and it makes sense as a follow up to "The Best of Both Worlds" and "Family". The same can't be said about Insurrection and Nemesis.
     
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  13. Vger23

    Vger23 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I think it’s a little wonky to say FC is a “great Trek movie,” because I think it is flawed and has some pacing issues. So, I’d say it’s overrated in the fandom in much the same way I feel TUC is overrated.

    That said, it’s also very entertaining and has some great sequences, in both action and just pure acting stuff. So, it’s also far from “bad/mediocre.”

    it’s good, solid entertainment. It’s not even close to my top 3 though.
     
  14. valkyrie013

    valkyrie013 Commodore Commodore

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    How many times did Patrick ask for more fun, action, love in his scripts for tng?
    Him being in an actioneer was probably his choice.
    As for trauma, lets say your spouse (husbsnd or wife) abused you, mentally, emotionally. You get out, divorced etc.
    After dealing with it you live a normal life, but say you run across your spouse, or you see a couple arguing ... You go back into that abused mode. You have triggers. Picard was triggered, but instead of going into his shell he rages and tries to destroy them.
     
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  15. SithHappens

    SithHappens Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    I think its a great film, yes its has issues but most movies do.

    It moves along nicely, plenty of humour mixed in with the action.

    Love the opening titles, the score, always gives me goose bumps as brings back memories of going to the cinema to see it and loving it.

    That said i love Generations too for different reasons.
     
  16. Warped9

    Warped9 Admiral Admiral

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    Meh. It ticks quite a few boxes for many, but I have a low opinion of all the TNG based films. I will take TFF over any TNG film.
     
  17. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    The Borg assimilating countless species and subjecting individuals to the will of a singular entity was something that was introduced in FC. When a drone was freed it wasn't a big deal for the hive at all.

    In TNG on the other side, there was no individuality (not even as a concept!) in the collective at all. So when a single borg (not using the term drone here for a reason) developed individual thoughts, it had to have a major impact on the whole collective...

    I wouldn't make so much of it too, if some fans hadn't brought up the issue that the actor playing Maddox in Picard doesn't resemble Brian Brophy and criticized the show for it.

    So what is different in this case? Even if Corbett is dead, they could have taken an actor that looked more like him.

    "Descent" made it seem that the whole Borg Collective was destroyed or at least crippled by Hugh's return.

    From "Descent, Part 2":

    ""HUGH: You gave me a sense of individuality, changed me, then sent me back to the Collective. You must have known that change would be passed on to others.
    RIKER: We considered it. We knew it was a possibility.
    HUGH: Then you made it possible for Lore to dominate us.
    WORF: I cannot accept that. Lore is only one. The Borg could have stopped him.
    HUGH: You don't know the condition we were in when he found us. Before my experience on the Enterprise, the Borg were a single-minded Collective. The voices in our heads were smooth and flowing. But after I returned, those voices began to change. They became uneven, discordant. For the first time, individual Borg had differing ideas about how to proceed. We couldn't function. Some Borg fought each other. Others simply shut themselves down. Many starved to death.
    RIKER: And then Lore came along.
    HUGH: You probably can't imagine what it is like to be so lost and frightened that you will listen to any voice which promises change.
    WORF: Even if that voice insists on controlling you.
    HUGH: That's what we wanted. Someone to show us the way out of confusion. Lore promised clarity and purpose. In the beginning, he seemed like a saviour. The promise of becoming a superior race, of becoming fully artificial was compelling. We gladly did everything he asked of us. But after a while, it became clear that Lore had no idea how to keep his promise. That's when he began talking about the need for us to make sacrifices. Before we realised it, this was the result.
    RIKER: What happened to them?
    HUGH: Lore began to experiment, trying to re-make us in his image. This is the result of my encounter with the Enterprise, Commander. So you can see I don't particularly welcome your presence here."
     
  18. Unimatrix Q

    Unimatrix Q Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    UOTE="Warped9, post: 13805409, member: 2239"]Meh. It ticks quite a few boxes for many, but I have a low opinion of all the TNG based films. I will take TFF over any TNG film.[/QUOTE]

    Same with me. Although TNG was my first Trek and i generally prefer it to TOS.
     
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  19. UssGlenn

    UssGlenn Commodore Commodore

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    They tried, but Tom Hanks wasn't able to do it.
     
  20. NCC-73515

    NCC-73515 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    and where did he say that the entire collective was affected? why would he know what's going on in the delta quadrant, for example, after they got separated?