Re: Why Haven't Borg Been Featured In Any New Nov
Wait for it.
Margaret
Editor
Wait for it.
Margaret
Editor
Why Haven't Borg Been Featured In Any New Novels?
- Thread starter Dayton3
- Start date
Re: Why Haven't Borg Been Featured In Any New Nov
One of the things that always appealed to me about the Borg is that they have no personality, no civilization, no politics........nothing but expansionistic drive.
An enemy that is more like a force of nature such as a massive flood (or a supernova).
An enemy you can't talk to, can't negoiate with.
An enemy that is to simply be killed.
A war novel doesn't have to constantly "get inside the heads of the enemy". It doesn't have to feature the enemy as individuals. Not all good war stories are "Balance of Terror" ish.
The "heads" you want to get into are those of the crew. There hope, fears, all that is going through their heads when they face an implacable enemy.
And I fear any new Pocket product will be yet another "talk to the drones" story.
Has it occurred to anyone at Pocket to do a novel with virtually no dialogue someday?
One of the things that always appealed to me about the Borg is that they have no personality, no civilization, no politics........nothing but expansionistic drive.
An enemy that is more like a force of nature such as a massive flood (or a supernova).
An enemy you can't talk to, can't negoiate with.
An enemy that is to simply be killed.
A war novel doesn't have to constantly "get inside the heads of the enemy". It doesn't have to feature the enemy as individuals. Not all good war stories are "Balance of Terror" ish.
The "heads" you want to get into are those of the crew. There hope, fears, all that is going through their heads when they face an implacable enemy.
And I fear any new Pocket product will be yet another "talk to the drones" story.
Has it occurred to anyone at Pocket to do a novel with virtually no dialogue someday?
Re: Why Haven't Borg Been Featured In Any New Nov
It would be utterly pointless. The Federation has no chance to defeat the Borg and would be destroyed.
There is a reason for the "once cube only" plot device. Everything else would be too much
It might work as "what if" story, but that's it. And even that's not particularly interesting. Faceless enemies without personalities are boring. I want more complexity than that
And I hope it doesn't do a Borg invasion story
It would be utterly pointless. The Federation has no chance to defeat the Borg and would be destroyed.
There is a reason for the "once cube only" plot device. Everything else would be too much
It might work as "what if" story, but that's it. And even that's not particularly interesting. Faceless enemies without personalities are boring. I want more complexity than that
Re: Why Haven't Borg Been Featured In Any New Nov
Incorrect.
Any enemy can be defeated. The Borg could invade with 10 ships, 50 ships, or 100 ships, and be defeated in a perfectly logical way. I've considered such a story up and down, even posted an element of it in fanfiction here once,
IT CAN BE DONE
And by the way, everyone here is claiming that "facelsss" enemies are boring........
DO YOU KNOW THAT? Can you give examples? Or are you just speculating?
Incorrect.
Any enemy can be defeated. The Borg could invade with 10 ships, 50 ships, or 100 ships, and be defeated in a perfectly logical way. I've considered such a story up and down, even posted an element of it in fanfiction here once,
IT CAN BE DONE
And by the way, everyone here is claiming that "facelsss" enemies are boring........
DO YOU KNOW THAT? Can you give examples? Or are you just speculating?
Re: Why Haven't Borg Been Featured In Any New Nov
Having said that, what I actually said was that faceless enemies aren't all that interesting for me to write. I also said that it can be done, just like you did, except I didn't feel the need to type it in all caps. I just said I didn't want to.
No, everyone isn't saying that, it's how you're choosing to interpret it in order to maintain your position as the lone voice crying in the wilderness, and it got tiresome about three years ago.
Having said that, what I actually said was that faceless enemies aren't all that interesting for me to write. I also said that it can be done, just like you did, except I didn't feel the need to type it in all caps. I just said I didn't want to.
Re: Why Haven't Borg Been Featured In Any New Nov
No thanks
There isn't much at all possible with such an enemy, because they have no real goals or motivations. So it always comes down to invasions.
The Trek writers wanted to get away from that and started to humanize the Borg in I, Borg and then on VOY, but that was even worse
And thank you for shouting. It's just proving that you are on the losing side
Yeah. With lame technobabble endings ala The Best of Both Worlds or silly plot devices like Q and time travel.
No thanks
Yes, the Borg
There isn't much at all possible with such an enemy, because they have no real goals or motivations. So it always comes down to invasions.
The Trek writers wanted to get away from that and started to humanize the Borg in I, Borg and then on VOY, but that was even worse
And thank you for shouting. It's just proving that you are on the losing side
Re: Why Haven't Borg Been Featured In Any New Nov
i'll play nice. see? all lowercase.
the borg can be defeated in open combat without a resort to technobabble or plot devices. all it takes is the appropriate strategy and leadership.
nations with inferior technology in earth history have beaten superior tech nations. one perfect example being the barbarian conquests of the technically superior roman empire. such as hermans crushing of several roman legions in the teutoburg forests in a.d. 9 during the height of octavians reign.
i'll play nice. see? all lowercase.
the borg can be defeated in open combat without a resort to technobabble or plot devices. all it takes is the appropriate strategy and leadership.
nations with inferior technology in earth history have beaten superior tech nations. one perfect example being the barbarian conquests of the technically superior roman empire. such as hermans crushing of several roman legions in the teutoburg forests in a.d. 9 during the height of octavians reign.
Re: Why Haven't Borg Been Featured In Any New Nov
May I make a suggestion?
Dayton3, if you're so adamantly sure this will work, why not write the story yourself and send it to SNW? While it may not be novel-length fiction, you'd still get to write the kind of Borg story you'd like to see.
Again, just a suggestion.
May I make a suggestion?
Dayton3, if you're so adamantly sure this will work, why not write the story yourself and send it to SNW? While it may not be novel-length fiction, you'd still get to write the kind of Borg story you'd like to see.
Again, just a suggestion.
Re: Why Haven't Borg Been Featured In Any New Nov
My story that I laid out wasn't workable within the Strange New Worlds format. By nature, it has to be long and involved. Probably on the order of 450 pages.
Posted by TerriO:
May I make a suggestion?
Dayton3, if you're so adamantly sure this will work, why not write the story yourself and send it to SNW? While it may not be novel-length fiction, you'd still get to write the kind of Borg story you'd like to see.
Again, just a suggestion.
My story that I laid out wasn't workable within the Strange New Worlds format. By nature, it has to be long and involved. Probably on the order of 450 pages.
Personally, I would love to see the Borg appear in some new novels and more short stories. I've been waiting to read of encounters with very Non-Humanoid Borg. For now, Print is the only medium that will make it possible. 
Oh, cripes... I've just been promoted...
Oh, cripes... I've just been promoted...
GodThingFormerly
A Different Kind of Asshole
Posted by Starlock:
Personally, I would love to see the Borg appear in some new novels and more short stories. I've been waiting to read of encounters with very Non-Humanoid Borg. For now, Print is the only medium that will make it possible.
You mean something on the order of Borgified Extragalactic Space Amoebae (TOS: The Immunity Syndrome) or even that thingy from the ST:TNG episode Galaxy's Child?
TGT
Posted by The God Thing:
You mean something on the order of Borgified Extragalactic Space Amoebae (TOS: The Immunity Syndrome) or even that thingy from the ST:TNG episode Galaxy's Child?
TGT
That might a little too much. I'm thinking more along the lines of up to perhaps Dinosaur sized lifeforms. But those two types would be an interesting challenge as well.
Re: Why Haven't Borg Been Featured In Any New Nov
That displays a certain inflexiblity, doesn't it?
I mean, in the plotting of your epic, surely you had other tangential ideas relating to your main subject but which could be told in a shorter format?
Write one of those and dive in.
Standing on your 450 pages is a sure way never to see them printed.
The Borg have been over used on screen, pure and simple. They are a convenient and visually dramatic enemy (much like Nazis in motion pictures). You see them and you don't have to worry about udnerstanding their agenda or their ruthlessness. Also, most of them don't speak, so all you're talking about is dressing up your normal stable of extras in Borg gear and having them stand around.
And all those Borg costumes and sets were, presumably, fairly expensive to put together so it's cost efficient to get as much use out of them as possible (kidding).
At this point, the Borg could have their own channel. They could have their own sitcom or cookbook or futurecasting hotline.
"WE are your future. That'll be 30 bucks."
They've done their job. Let them rest.
That way, when they do show up, they'll be like the Spanish Inquisition.
IOW: Unexpected.
That displays a certain inflexiblity, doesn't it?
I mean, in the plotting of your epic, surely you had other tangential ideas relating to your main subject but which could be told in a shorter format?
Write one of those and dive in.
Standing on your 450 pages is a sure way never to see them printed.
The Borg have been over used on screen, pure and simple. They are a convenient and visually dramatic enemy (much like Nazis in motion pictures). You see them and you don't have to worry about udnerstanding their agenda or their ruthlessness. Also, most of them don't speak, so all you're talking about is dressing up your normal stable of extras in Borg gear and having them stand around.
And all those Borg costumes and sets were, presumably, fairly expensive to put together so it's cost efficient to get as much use out of them as possible (kidding).
At this point, the Borg could have their own channel. They could have their own sitcom or cookbook or futurecasting hotline.
"WE are your future. That'll be 30 bucks."
They've done their job. Let them rest.
That way, when they do show up, they'll be like the Spanish Inquisition.
IOW: Unexpected.
Re: Why Haven't Borg Been Featured In Any New Nov
After Voyager finished I was "Borged out" for a long time. It just annoyed me immensely that in order to defeat the Borg, they had to become weaker and weaker - and the Borg Queen in question was losing her intelligence more and more, it seems. At the same time, the Voyager became strangely powerful when dealing with Borg but I remember, when this ancient Klingon ship shot at it, it got into serious trouble. It was ridiculous.
But then I thought about it again and I got even more frustrated because the ingredients were there all the time so that the Borg in Voyager could have been great, believable and definitely interesting.
First of all, when you have to face a powerful force that is much stronger than you, you look for allies. Since TNG there are three factions of Borg: the original Borg, the more or less "good" guys like Hugh and the more or less "bad" guys who are individuals. Voyager could easily have built on that. If I were Janeway, I would have looked for such positive "tribes" and get them on my side.
I am actually glad that the Borg have been revealed to be more than just automatons that can be trashed without a second thought. I think it is much more chilling that you are dealing with a kind of zombie, only that inside is a trapped intelligent being.
I think it is not too late to use these ingredients and develop them further. I even hope it will happen one day, because I see the potential for something very interesting. I see a lot of possibilities, but I won`t mention them, not that I am spoiling a plot for a future book.
After Voyager finished I was "Borged out" for a long time. It just annoyed me immensely that in order to defeat the Borg, they had to become weaker and weaker - and the Borg Queen in question was losing her intelligence more and more, it seems. At the same time, the Voyager became strangely powerful when dealing with Borg but I remember, when this ancient Klingon ship shot at it, it got into serious trouble. It was ridiculous.
But then I thought about it again and I got even more frustrated because the ingredients were there all the time so that the Borg in Voyager could have been great, believable and definitely interesting.
First of all, when you have to face a powerful force that is much stronger than you, you look for allies. Since TNG there are three factions of Borg: the original Borg, the more or less "good" guys like Hugh and the more or less "bad" guys who are individuals. Voyager could easily have built on that. If I were Janeway, I would have looked for such positive "tribes" and get them on my side.
I am actually glad that the Borg have been revealed to be more than just automatons that can be trashed without a second thought. I think it is much more chilling that you are dealing with a kind of zombie, only that inside is a trapped intelligent being.
I think it is not too late to use these ingredients and develop them further. I even hope it will happen one day, because I see the potential for something very interesting. I see a lot of possibilities, but I won`t mention them, not that I am spoiling a plot for a future book
.
Re: Why Haven't Borg Been Featured In Any New Nov
The Borg have been done to death!
Voyager and First Contact destroyed and awesome alien race.
The Borg have been done to death!
Voyager and First Contact destroyed and awesome alien race.
Re: Why Haven't Borg Been Featured In Any New Nov
Hmm. Is this confirmation that *something* involving the Borg is on the drawing board? If so, I shall wait patiently ...
Gatekeeper
Hmm. Is this confirmation that *something* involving the Borg is on the drawing board? If so, I shall wait patiently ...
Gatekeeper
