Why does Harry Kim never get promoted?

[Guy Gardener]

By the way, I like a lot the interpretation that Tuvok was demoted after "Prime Factors", funny but cool that fixing a production inconsistency introduced more plot continuity and consequence.



Again she could have thought he was mostly good at his job tasks but not good enough at the interpersonal aspects. And/or different reasons could explain the lack of promotion at different times, like she might have promoted him in season 4 but was too busy with newcomer Seven, would have promoted him in season 5 until "The Disease" happened and that set her against promotion for a few years.

That Federation Cultural database Tuvok illegally gave away "probably" included "The Sound of Music".

I'm not saying its Patterns of Force all over again, but both episodes have the abbreviation PF, and at some point an alien on Sikaris is going to cosplay as a NAZI.

 

[Farscape One]

Regarding the pip problems of Tuvok in season 1, Torres and Tom were shown as full Lt. up until "PRIME FACTORS". Going by the theory that Tuvok and Torres were demoted after this incident, which is not a bad theory actually, how does it explain Tom Paris going from Lt. to Lt. j.g.?

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

I believe it was Jeri Taylor's intention at least that Tom was a lieutenant junior grade during his previous Starfleet career, so Janeway was effectively reinstating him at his old rank?

 

[Farscape One]

I get that, and makes perfect sense and I always felt that was the case anyway, but I was just going by the logic of the costume fixing and trying to see why it would apply to Paris since he didn't do anything wrong in "PRIME FACTORS".

 

[Shamrock Holmes]

Honestly, while trying to link it to Prime Factors is understandable, IMO this is one of those things that mostly doesn't have an in-universe explanation as there is some evidence that they always intended Tuvok to be a lieutenant from a production PoV and the episode after Prime Factors was just coincidently the first episode filmed after they twigged to the error.

 

[MarkusTay]

I just assume that Tuvok was the old number one (sure seems that way), and when he got back to Voyager in episode one, he just donned his old uniform. Problem is, Chakotay took his place on Voyager. So eventually, they realized their was a bit of a problem among seniority with the crew (and there was even at least one episode about that), which took at least a year to all workout (with Tuvok, for example, taking the 'D' for the greater good). I mean, its not like anyone was thinking clearly in that first episode, so it took some time for those decisions to 'shake out', as it were.

 

[at Quark's]

^In universe, it can perhaps be justified to some slight extent by the idea that they were simply too busy too survive the first few weeks and solve their immediate crew staffing problems to get too obsessed about proper insignia on each uniform.

 

[Farscape One]

Tuvok was always security of Voyager. The pilot established this. He was never XO.

 

[Richard S. Ta]

A great big middle finger to the "forever ensign" crowd.

is there really a crowd for that?

 

[Oddish]

And/or different reasons could explain the lack of promotion at different times, like she might have promoted him in season 4 but was too busy with newcomer Seven, would have promoted him in season 5 until "The Disease" happened and that set her against promotion for a few years.

First of all, she should have promoted him by Year 3, before any of this happened. In the "Favorite Son" AU, he would have gotten his hollow pip in under a year.

Second, she forgave Tom after his much more severe infraction after only a year and a half. So why not Harry?

Going by the theory that Tuvok and Torres were demoted after this incident, which is not a bad theory actually, how does it explain Tom Paris going from Lt. to Lt. j.g.?

It was a costuming error. She always talked about "Lieutenant" Tuvok, even when he wore LCDR's pips.

believe it was Jeri Taylor's intention at least that Tom was a lieutenant junior grade during his previous Starfleet career, so Janeway was effectively reinstating him at his old rank?

There was nothing wrong with what was done with Paris. The problem was what wasn't done with Harry.

Tuvok was always security of Voyager. The pilot established this. He was never XO.

LCDR Cavit was. Unfortunately, he perished in the trip down. That made the candidates for XO Tuvok, a lieutenant but still active, and Chakotay, who left Starfleet as a LCDR.

there really a crowd for that?

A very vocal one, actually. There are people who insist that Harry was an ensign for all his careeer.

I think one reason why we never saw Harry since is that the writers don't want to piss off either the people like me who think he deserved a promotion, or the others who take a sadistic delight in him never getting one.

 

[suarezguy]

I get that, and makes perfect sense and I always felt that was the case anyway, but I was just going by the logic of the costume fixing and trying to see why it would apply to Paris since he didn't do anything wrong in "PRIME FACTORS".

That one doesn't make sense. Or it was a belated demotion for his nonsense (also related to sex ) of "Ex Post Facto".

she forgave Tom after his much more severe infraction after only a year and a half. So why not Harry?

I think forgiving Tom so quickly was the error, but yes the difference was unfair.

 

[MarkusTay]

*meh* - I think maybe Paris was 'the man' she hoped he would be when he carried her off to make squishy fish-babies. I mean, the show literally begins with the two of them - it was all about her making Tom her 'Boy Toy', right from the beginning. She probably heard ships were disappearing into the Gamma Quadrant and wanted to get stuck there.

But Tom didn't make the cut, so she busted him back down to his old rank. That's what you get for not pleasing your captain. LOL

And about Harry - I think you read too much into it. I think that everyone who jokes about him loves him, and knows he should have been promoted (I do). I mean, if we didn't think that, it wouldn't be much of a joke, would it? It was poor writing, and if anything, we're making fun of the writers/show, not Harry himself. You want to know what I feel pissed about as an outcome of that show - ATTN: Picard Spoilers Below...

Spoiler

That Seven got back to the Federation, and instead of them embracing her, they disallowed her from entering Starfleet and treated her like an outcast. Picard is literally responsible for the deaths of eleven thousand Starfleet personnel, and they hand-wave it, and he becomes a goddamn admiral!!! Seven - who was a little girl and innocent victim of the Borg - is ostracized? That's a travesty. That's not bad writing... that's EPICALLY bad writing. You're upset about Harry, who was merely overlooked by the writers, when they went out of their way to target someone that was brutalized as a child? Sorry. I pick my battles more carefully than that. THAT is the hill I die on. Cheers.

 

[at Quark's]

^I don't agree that Picard is responsible for those 11.000 deaths. He was powerless to resist it, having been assimilated at that time. The rest of what you say makes sense to me.

(I don't think this needs a spoiler tag since I'm not actually discussing anything happening in Picard, right?)

 

[Oddish]

I don't think this needs a spoiler tag since I'm not actually discussing anything happening in Picard, right?)

Probably better safe than sorry. It was pretty recent. Not sure what the official cutoff is.

And about Harry - I think you read too much into it. I think that everyone who jokes about him loves him, and knows he should have been promoted (I do). I mean, if we didn't think that, it wouldn't be much of a joke, would it? It was poor writing, and if anything, we're making fun of the writers/show, not Harry himself.

Maybe. Or maybe not, given that one of his most common nicknames seems to be "Poor Dumb Harry Kim". So I think there's some mean spiritedness there.

 

[Farscape One]

First of all, she should have promoted him by Year 3, before any of this happened. In the "Favorite Son" AU, he would have gotten his hollow pip in under a year.

Second, she forgave Tom after his much more severe infraction after only a year and a half. So why not Harry?



It was a costuming error. She always talked about "Lieutenant" Tuvok, even when he wore LCDR's pips.



There was nothing wrong with what was done with Paris. The problem was what wasn't done with Harry.



LCDR Cavit was. Unfortunately, he perished in the trip down. That made the candidates for XO Tuvok, a lieutenant but still active, and Chakotay, who left Starfleet as a LCDR.



A very vocal one, actually. There are people who insist that Harry was an ensign for all his careeer.

I think one reason why we never saw Harry since is that the writers don't want to piss off either the people like me who think he deserved a promotion, or the others who take a sadistic delight in him never getting one.

I know it was a costume error, and Starfleet always referred to Lt. Commanders as 'commander', never 'lieutenant'. (Unless it was an official record scenario like a trial, then they are addressed by their full 'Lt. Commander' rank.)

I was just making the point as to why him being demoted after that episode is not the case. I guess I wasn't clear with my thoughts.

 

[at Quark's]

Probably better safe than sorry. It was pretty recent. Not sure what the official cutoff is.

Sorry for not being clear there. I only meant to say I believe my reaction probably doesn't need a spoiler tag since it didn't cover anything happening in Picard, only events from TNG, even though I reacted on something written under spoiler tags.

 

[Oddish]

Recently saw a video by TrekCulture, with characters they hoped would make a return. They suggested that Harry should come back on "Lower Decks", still stuck at the rank of ensign.

In other words, instead of having the viewers suspect that Janeway may have capriciously destroyed Harry's career for no good reason, it should be canonical.

 

[DonIago]

Not that I necessarily liked Kim's character in any case, but that he'd stay in Starfleet as a perma-ensign rather than resigning and getting on with his life would say things about his personality that I just wouldn't be able to tolerate.

 

[Oddish]

Good point. If LD pulled that, it would be assassinating two Voyager characters at once. Talk about efficiency...