No safeties to prevent relativistic travel on impulse? Although the quarter c limit on impulse is not Canon, AFAIR.
I have not seen this. week's episode
I have not seen this. week's episode
Spoilers Why do they need Dilithium?
- Thread starter Fateor
- Start date
Yes, but a lot of these judgements seem hard and fast. Or I might be misreading it. The danger of text based interactions I supposed.
I try to judge the material fairly and adjust my thoughts if they clear things up.
Not saying you are not. I guess I reserve judgement until the whole product is out there. It's like judging the meal based on the appetizer.
Mileage, etc.
More like judging it after eating nearly a fourth of it, which is where we are at after three episodes.
Thank you.
Well, then, it's probably not going to get any better thenMore like judging it after eating nearly a fourth of it, which is where we are at after three episodes.
Yeah, I didn't get the idea the Discovery used FTL to get from Saturn to Earth... the 10 seconds passage of time is down to editing mostly.
In fact, Burnham suggested they jump outside of Earth's scanning range... which would imply that she thought Earth's senor capability would somehow still be limited in the 32nd century to not include Saturn or the entirety of SOL?
Wouldn't 'short range' sensors in 3188 basically have the sophistication and capabilities of long range senors of the 29th or 30th century?
Also, the Federation listening outpost where Sahil is stationed has a range of 600 Lightyears (and that's short range).
Why wouldn't Earth have similar or greater capabilities?
Anyway, Discovery had their Warp core powered down as well (which means no Warp capability)... interestingly enough, The Discovery doesn't need the Warp core (and as such, the Dilithium) to run the Spore Drive... the ship was running on auxiliary power entirely when they jumped to Earth.
Sigh... I wish the writers would include better consistency... at this point, its like time just stopped beyond 24th century and 0 advancement was made (which we know wasn't the case).
Even in the 24th century there were loads of options and alternatives that were viable and needed simply more resources to study and make work properly.
Things are all over the place... and I'm not optimistic enough to think the writers actually thought this through properly or that we will get viable explanations (which to be fair... we didn't).
In fact, Burnham suggested they jump outside of Earth's scanning range... which would imply that she thought Earth's senor capability would somehow still be limited in the 32nd century to not include Saturn or the entirety of SOL?
Wouldn't 'short range' sensors in 3188 basically have the sophistication and capabilities of long range senors of the 29th or 30th century?
Also, the Federation listening outpost where Sahil is stationed has a range of 600 Lightyears (and that's short range).
Why wouldn't Earth have similar or greater capabilities?
Anyway, Discovery had their Warp core powered down as well (which means no Warp capability)... interestingly enough, The Discovery doesn't need the Warp core (and as such, the Dilithium) to run the Spore Drive... the ship was running on auxiliary power entirely when they jumped to Earth.
Sigh... I wish the writers would include better consistency... at this point, its like time just stopped beyond 24th century and 0 advancement was made (which we know wasn't the case).
Even in the 24th century there were loads of options and alternatives that were viable and needed simply more resources to study and make work properly.
Things are all over the place... and I'm not optimistic enough to think the writers actually thought this through properly or that we will get viable explanations (which to be fair... we didn't).
We probably won't.
That's what I (essentially) said too.
All this 'The Federation tried alternate means and none of them worked' handwaving seems too simple and lazy to me next to everything we were shown mere 100 years after 23rd century (in fact, the majority of advanced stuff Starfleet encountered from alien species should have been Starfleet's own advancements in those 100 years from 23rd to 24th centuries).
Unless of course Starfleet decided to classify every single instance of more advanced technology and power sources they encountered and completely swept them under the rug (which seems utterly stupid and unrealistic for Trek).
And apparently, no one thought to advance propulsion or power generation since the 23rd century (which we know is complete bollocks, because clear advancements were made by Starfleet and the Federation by the 24th century... even though on TV it felt more like 'side-upgrade' vs an actual 'its been 100 freaking years... we're FAR more advanced than that').
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Well, then, it's probably not going to get any better then
Since I’m paying for the whole meal, I definitely hope it gets better!
Because crafting technological development across a realistic time frame is something that Trek has always struggled with. I mean, there were times in TNG when they didn't bother to check on a colony for 50 years and expected relationships to be similar.
So, time scales in Trek suck. Technological progression in Trek also sucks.
I still think the Burn caused permanent damage to subspace greatly impacting use of sensors, FTL and the like. I could be wrong but that's my supposition.
You're a 1/4 of the way in!
Perhaps she thought (and remember, she had a year to familiarize herself with the technology of the era) that DASHing into Saturn's orbit (high orbit, for sure, but still likely within the Saturnian lunar system) would mask the ship from detection by sensors, especially ones dedicated to detecting warp ships.
I 'suppose' that could work... but realistically, we ARE talking about 930 years of difference (which would result in technological advancement proceeding at exponential pace AT LEAST)... Federation sensors were sometimes fooled by planetary bodies as we saw even in the 24th century... but they would have evolved WAY beyond this limitation by the 32nd.
Because crafting technological development across a realistic time frame is something that Trek has always struggled with. I mean, there were times in TNG when they didn't bother to check on a colony for 50 years and expected relationships to be similar.
So, time scales in Trek suck. Technological progression in Trek also sucks.
I still think the Burn caused permanent damage to subspace greatly impacting use of sensors, FTL and the like. I could be wrong but that's my supposition.
To be fair, Roddenberry had a better idea.
His idea for the Federation in the 24th century was that it would have been exploring other galaxies... which would seem consistent with the idea of technological progression for a collection of alien societies like the Federation that share technology, science and resources freely.
If he were still alive, its possible he could have envisioned something a bit better than programmable matter 1000 years into the future.
We actually already have programmable matter in real life... sure its in its infantile stage more or less, but it won't take us 1000 years to get to Trek level of manipulating it... I'd say less than 50 years (considering the fact we already had molecular manufactuing since 2015 and AI controlled atomic scale manufacturing since 2018).
I seriously think Programmable matter doesn't seem that advanced.
Replicators from the 24th century that convert energy into any kind of matter (so long as you have the pattern and energy) seem more advanced.
As for the Burn causing damage to subspace which would affect long range sensors... I suppose its possible.
We'll need to wait and see.
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I like the programable manner and personally find it just advanced enough to work.
I do agree that Gene Roddenberry with his idea of exploring galaxies and think Trek would benefit from doing so. But, Trek has always struggled with technological advancement in any long term way. Unfortunately.
I like the concept of programmable matter, but replicators which convert energy into any kind of matter (aka 24th century style) seem more advanced than that.
As for Trek struggling with technological advancement in the long term... I agree... it seems like so many things were open in the 24th century for radical advancement in the future... and then we get... well, this.
I think Trek needs more progressive people like Roddenberry. Heck, there are MANY concepts we theorized in real life which the Federation could be implementing by the 32nd century and just say: 'we didn't see it necessary to do it earlier, even though we could have'.
Mind you, this is actually sad because Trek is supposed to be based on real technology and science and a illustrate a better tomorrow (aka technological and scientific advancement and how everyone BENEFITS from it).
But it seems like the writers are finding excuses not to do that.
Heck, anyone who saw Trek and has a good understanding of it would give you better technological advancement than what the writers give us.
I mean seriously, who hires these guys?
They seem to barely have any grasp of real life science and technology (and its progression) and then they completely ditch technological advancement (or more to the point EXPONENTIAL technological advancement) in favor of what we saw.
Heck, even Star Trek Picard regressed somewhat in technology. Replicators are now nothing more than faster 3d printers apparently as opposed to an outgrowth of transporter technology (which Voyager established them to be) that convert energy into matter.
The transporters however did advance by Picard (they became much faster with dematerializing/materializing people).
32nd century is lacking personal Transwarp beaming (but that alone would prevent the Federation from collapsing) which prime Spock said Montgomery Scott made to work in late 24th century (that doesn't exist apparently).
Quantum slipstream exists, but benamite crystals don't (even though Voyager's ensign Kim said it would take years to synthesize their own - a process which would likely be perfected in 5, maybe 10 to 20 years after Voyager got back - but that doesn't exist - and programmable matter would probably make it SIMPLE to make benamite crystals - ooh... why can't programmable matter make Dilithium Crystals? Or synthetic ones which we know existed?).
Coaxial Warp doesn't exist (even though Tom Paris made it work on a shuttle).
Transwarp doesn't exist (7 of 9 got back with voyager, and Voyager itself acquired a lot of information on Borg TW technology - enough to likely reproduce its own version in a decade or two even without 7 of 9 assisting the Federation).
Working with what we just got from TNG DS9 and VOY opens up ridiculous possibilities.
Heck, Barclay (when he was modified by Cytherians) modified subspace which allowed Enterprise-D to cut across to the Galactic core in seconds... and starfleet sensors recorded all this information... not to mention the fact Cytherians shared information with Enterprise-D willingly which Picard mentioned would take decades to decypher (why decades? over 150 alien species working together in the Federation... would probably be able to crack that in a decade or less realistically).
Simple-the writers fear change. Trek as a franchise fears change.
I don't think its Trek as a franchise fears change... to be... well Star Trek.
Its the writers.
They made a pretty bold move to the 32nd century (much farther into Trek future)... but then they set everything as if barely a century (or two) passed.
I do think they fear change and that has been the case for a while now. They don't want to drift too far from what has made Trek successful in the past. Not just now, but also with other writing teams throughout. Same with the viewers at times. I see it reflective in so many different aspects of the franchise, from production teams, to writers, to fan art to fan films that it feels very much wanting to linger in the familiar than to explore something new.
I agree that current technological progress has far outpaced what Trek could imagine in terms of computing and programable matter and the like. But, Trek has remained inside its little box for too long. I have hoped it will change and it has not done so. I don't expect it to do so now.
