Why Didn't People Like Jadzia Dax?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Ro_Laren, Apr 7, 2009.

  1. Shaka Zulu

    Shaka Zulu Commodore Commodore

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    For me, it' s that a certain subsection of fandom can't deal with really pretty women, and want female chaacters to look like them (that's why we got a plus-sized lady as one of the Ghostbusters in the 2016 movie, IMHO.)
     
  2. Mojochi

    Mojochi Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Hmmm. I actually like Jadzia most of the time. I couldn't say that Terry Farrell has all that much range as an actress, but she did bring an appeal to the character beyond just her physical beauty. Some of the written character didn't always fit well with the actress. The whole "Old Man" thing never failed to make me cringe, but when you think about Star Trek history, those quirks being a little off now & then is nothing new. For god sake, they had a French captain who was about as English as a person can get. lol
     
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  3. WARLOCK1965

    WARLOCK1965 Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    She was good. She was Starfleet before getting Dax. Why would she change career after all they became one. And that add to what she would do with that knowledge of so many lifetime's to call anpon.
     
  4. Slapdash Turtle

    Slapdash Turtle Cadet Newbie

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    I have no problem with Terry Farrell and the acting. She was pleasant enough. I do think that what hindered her was on the writing end. The concept of symbionts and Trill hosts is an awesome idea, but it seems as if they had no idea where to develop the character beyond that. It's a character gimmick--what makes her special-- but she needs to have identity and development to flesh her out past that point and I don't really feel like it ever happens. It is front and center in pretty much every single interaction she has. It's all Dax, all the time. Jadzia is merely the packaging.

    It is an odd thing for a character to be a walking flashback for other characters.

    On that note, I did like Ezri... but she came along so late in the show that they shouldn't have even bothered; it was ultimately a waste of time that took away from more plot-centric arcs and characters. It should have just ended with Jadzia.
     
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  5. MadeIndescribable

    MadeIndescribable Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But that's why I loved Ezri, Jadzia was this fully formed Trill/Symbiont hybrid, but Ezri was struggling to find herself in that mix, where she ended and Dax began, that's what was missing with Jadzia.
     
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  6. Slapdash Turtle

    Slapdash Turtle Cadet Newbie

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    Ezri really was struggling with the transition, which is why I liked her so much more than her predecessor. It made her more relatable, more dynamic. We got very little time with her relative to the end of the show, which is the annoying part. I wish she had come along earlier so we would have more time to see how she altered the mix.

    I liken Jadzia to an NPC after their story arc is done. Standing around, being there, but not actually doing much. Which is sad.
     
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  7. mlbach

    mlbach Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Loved Jadzia. Loved Ezri. And what's an NPC?
     
  8. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Non-player character: a term from rollplaying games for a character controlled by the gamemaster or by some AI, not one of the players.
     
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  9. jonds91

    jonds91 Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    I like all the characters in DS9. Had no issue with Jardia Dax. She wasn't my favourite but she had her moments.
    The concept of a symbiotic relationship between a Trill and its host was very interesting. I wish they'd delved a bit deeper into it and explored all the benefits of being a host.
     
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  10. Aletta

    Aletta Cadet Newbie

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    I don't really like Jadzia, because she's made too perfect. It's almost like the creator was a guy who tried to create his perfect girlfriend: very beautiful, confident, smart, sometimes serious and wise but also very funny, outgoing, etc. As a woman, I prefer Kira and the women of Voyager, because they were a lot more relatable and more like real people.

    I also agree with the critique that Jadzia was promiscuous. In one of the later episodes, Ezri implies that Jadzia slept with a number of guys. One of the creator even said that Jadzia might have slept with another guy on her bachelorette party. At least Kira only slept with guys she really loved. The whole idea that in the future people are more open to casual sex, and that an old being like Dax would be more open to that, is offensive to me.

    And is that a double standard? No. I am a woman. I hate men like Kirk. I hate double standards. But feminism doesn't mean you should create female characters who behave the same way as the men you hate. You don't fight double standards by lowering the standard for women, but by raising the standard for men.
     
  11. mlbach

    mlbach Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    Oh, my.
    Well, can't say I agree with what you say. Loved Jadzia, and loved the whole idea of many lives, which fits in with my world view (reincarnation, switching genders, switching species).
    I wasn't a fan of Kirk, mainly because he was such a sexist dick, but I had no problems with Jadzia's bed hopping. I was actually disappointed with how quickly she succumbed to the charms of Worf. If they hadn't done "Rejoined" before they hooked up I'd have been VERY disappointed.
     
  12. Sybok Was Wrong

    Sybok Was Wrong Commander Red Shirt

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    I just think Terry Ferrell was a pretty limited actress. I don't think she brought believability early on as having lived many lives. Then as she became a better actress, Dax got smug.

    So she was never likeable to me. But honestly, I didn't find any of the DS9 characters likeable outside Quark and Garak!
     
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  13. mickmike

    mickmike Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Why is a Woman showing agency by choosing to engage in consensual sex with multiple partners offensive? I think it's more offensive to imply that a woman is somehow less of a person or of low standards because she enjoys sex with multiple partners. Promiscuous women are bad are they? What a puritanical and misogynistic view to have. :rolleyes:
     
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  14. Tosk

    Tosk Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Why is casual sex a negative?

    Edit: Actually no, don't answer that. I like mickmike's post better. Answer them instead. :)
     
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  15. kkt

    kkt Captain Captain

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    I don't think Jadzia was promiscuous. There was Deral, from Meridian. There was Worf. There may have been the fire juggler dude at her bachelorette party and there may have been Captain Boday. Two definites that were in the context of a love relationship, one maybe at a party, and one maybe after a date. That's not really that much for six years. She acts flirty, but there's no promiscuity there unless you think sex must only be in marriage.

    Ezri yelled that Jadzia was sleeping with practically everyone, but she was mad as hell at Worf and it's clear to me that she was only saying that to make him mad too.

    She's no Kirk, for sure.
     
  16. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk The Walrus Premium Member

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    Even Kirk's no Kirk.
     
  17. Timewalker

    Timewalker Cat-lovin', Star Trekkin' Time Lady Premium Member

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    Terry Farrell got smug. Dax - her version - was already smug from the get-go. I lost any respect I had for her when she went on a rant about the writers having the gall to write storylines for the recurring characters instead of the regular cast. Why, those silly stories about Rom and Leeta and Nog and even the hologram Vic Fontaine took up time that should have gone to HER! :rolleyes:

    Not even O'Brien? The Miles-Julian friendship was what I liked most about that show, providing Keiko wasn't part of whatever episode. Although it was a bit amusing, that conversation where O'Brien was trying to figure out his relationship with Keiko, and why couldn't she be more like Julian (I interpret that to mean that he meant Keiko wasn't into spontaneous, silly fun). It's too bad Tom Paris wasn't around; he could have dug into his knowledge of 20th century TV and come up with some holoprograms based on the Red Green Show. Keiko wouldn't have understood those either, but Miles would probably have had fun with them.
    And how many women do we know Kirk slept with?


    Carol Marcus (off-screen, pre-TOS)

    Miramanee (became pregnant with his child)

    Drusilla (implied, when Kirk told Spock "They threw me a few... curves.")

    Deela (assumed; we saw him putting on his boots, and since her purpose in accelerating him was for mating, we can assume he allowed himself to be persuaded in hopes of gaining some advantage)

    And that's it. We can make assumptions about the other women he knew - Ruth, Areel, Janice (why are so many women connected with him named "Janice"?), even this Antonia woman in "Generations" who we never saw. But we don't know.

    So that's no more than your list for Jadzia. Kirk did a great deal of flirting, and there were numerous instances of kissing and some of the women were more than emphatic that they'd like more with him (ie. Helen Noel and Marlena Moreau; we know she was "The Captain's Woman" in the Mirror Universe, but there's no proof at all that Prime Universe Marlena and Prime Kirk had anything at all to do with each other.
     
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  18. MadeIndescribable

    MadeIndescribable Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I get how the other women are more relatable, but in terms of Jadzia being "too perfect", I just see her as the result of multiple lifetimes of experience and self improvement (but as I said before, Ezri's struggle with becoming Dax did make for a much better character)
     
  19. Paradise City

    Paradise City Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I think the writers took a long time to make a final decision as to what the character was about. Is she the stereotype straightfaced Starfleet quasi-vulcan or she is a hedonistic quasi-curzon type. Or what was the equilibrium to be between these two facets of her character?

    Farrell did well. She was handed a tough ask for her to be what is essentially a honorary Klingon. It's almost a step too far but she just about snags it. And other than possibly that Risa episode, her relationship with Worf is dramatically successful.

    I have to disagree with some of the other sentiments about how often they did the trill episodes. I found most of the episodes dealing with the "symbiosis commission" to be a drag.
     
  20. Voth commando1

    Voth commando1 Commodore Commodore

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    Wait Ezri was speaking with Worf on the whole promiscuity thing and she was mocking him about the issue anyway. Though she did seem to date without any profiling or distinction.

    And what creator said she slept with some guy at his bacholorette party?

    Though you are probably accurate to some extent.

    Might explain why Julian was so unhappy-I've heard it said she may have been fine with a one night stand sort of deal but he wanted her to be "love of my life forever" which she wasn't interested in being(at least early on until Worf showed up and made the issue moot).

    As for Voyager-Seven expresses a disdain for marriage and monogamy in course oblivion(it's her copy but still).