Sonak, I love this. Can I quote you?
Why did David have to die?
- Thread starter EJA
- Start date
Again...if you give a shit about David then his death served the purpose the writers of the film intended. To provide an emotional context for the film and give Kirk a consequence...a personal consequence. David's death was tragic. That was the point. If it wasn't tragic then people wouldn't give a shit about him dying in the first place.
A friend of mine - a huge Shatner fan - hated both David Marcus and Merritt Butrick with a passion after seeing ST II. She called then both interlopers and Kirk wannabees. She was fortunate enough to be a set visitor during the filming of ST III and was there the fateful day that Saavik and David opened Spock's burial tube and found it empty. She was briefly introduced to the actors and then she was on her way.
She came home to Australia saying, about David and Merritt:
"He's dreamy..."
And, many months later, she was sobbing in the cinema when David died.
So Kirk could shout:
KKKHHHAAANNN!!!!!!!!
KKKHHHAAANNN!!!!!!!!
^ He didn't shout Khan when David died. You're getting your movies confused 
^ He didn't shout Khan when David died. You're getting your movies confused
A preemptive shout.
No, think about it: if David hadn't used protomatter in the Genesis matrix ("solving certain problems"), then Genesis would not have gotten to the stage where Starfleet would have been looking for planets on which Genesis could be tested. That being the case, Khan would never have gotten free from Ceti Alpha V in the first place, no one at Regula One would have died, Spock would not have died, Grissom would never have been destroyed...I mean, it might not be entirely fair to lay all of that at David's feet, but all those deaths were indirectly "paying the price for [David's] impatience."
David using protomatter was akin to Kirk cheating on the Kobyashi Maru test...only in this case David's consequence was a much more tragic response. I actually wish we'd get a novel on David's life. I liked him as a character as well.
It sucks that Kirk was able to get away with changing rules, and David is condemned.
It sucks that Kirk was able to get away with changing rules, and David is condemned.
But did Kirk really get away with it? It seems that David inherited 'the changing the rules' trait from his father and his father got to listen to him die because of it.
If David had survived, he would have lived on as a disgraced scientist with many deaths on his conscious and figuring he was a failure in the eyes of his father. Six months and he would have had a phaser to his temple anyway.
^ Kirk would have forgiven him but yes his career as a scientist would be ruined. It does suck that David died but hey that's life.
Kirk would've forgiven him... but that doesn't mean that David would still feel like anything less than a failure in his eyes. Depression is a funny thing, trust me I know.
So do I...about depression. Never mind about David feeling like a failure in his father's eyes, he would feel like a failure in his own eyes. The thing is with the cheating...David has concealed that from everyone from a long time and only revealed it when he absolutely had to. He deserves some blame too, especially after his brash attitude in TWOK. As Carol said...David is very much his father's son, but with flaws.
Evidently the same flaws, but without the military training to curb some of the impatience those flaws create.
^ Yep. That's an excellent way of putting it.
Here's part of the unpleasant truth, and has nothing to do with Themes And Meaning In Drama 101:
David and Saavik were conceived early in the development of the second Star Trek movie as younger and more contemporary characters who could replace some of the original cast members in a spin-off television series or further sequels (Spock, of course, was not expected to continue beyond ST TWOK). This wasn't the first time Trek producers had thought of this, either - Ilya/Ilia and Decker represented the same intent in the Star Trek Phase II format, and that was a major reason that the supporting players from TOS (most of whom had not had seasonal contracts on the first series to begin with) were offered only contracts for a limited number of the first thirteen episodes of that proposed series.
Time devoted to David Marcus and/or Saavik was screen time taken away from those folks that William Shatner was reportedly wont to refer to as "the Seven Dwarves." Alley and Buttrick dealt with hostility from others both on the set and in group promotional appearences at conventions in the months that followed. It wasn't a happy set for them or an easy situation, as it evolved, for Harve Bennett. Alley ultimately dealt with it by asking for a substantial increase in salary to repeat the experience. Saavik was recast and diminished to a bit player; Marcus was killed off.
David and Saavik were conceived early in the development of the second Star Trek movie as younger and more contemporary characters who could replace some of the original cast members in a spin-off television series or further sequels (Spock, of course, was not expected to continue beyond ST TWOK). This wasn't the first time Trek producers had thought of this, either - Ilya/Ilia and Decker represented the same intent in the Star Trek Phase II format, and that was a major reason that the supporting players from TOS (most of whom had not had seasonal contracts on the first series to begin with) were offered only contracts for a limited number of the first thirteen episodes of that proposed series.
Time devoted to David Marcus and/or Saavik was screen time taken away from those folks that William Shatner was reportedly wont to refer to as "the Seven Dwarves." Alley and Buttrick dealt with hostility from others both on the set and in group promotional appearences at conventions in the months that followed. It wasn't a happy set for them or an easy situation, as it evolved, for Harve Bennett. Alley ultimately dealt with it by asking for a substantial increase in salary to repeat the experience. Saavik was recast and diminished to a bit player; Marcus was killed off.
I've often wondered about his, since they seemed to be setting up a very literal Star Trek: The Next Generation (as opposed to the TNG we really got, which was more accurately Star Trek: The 3rd or 4th Generation). Saavik would have carried on as the captain (hence the Kobatashi-Maru) and David as the science officer, reversing the roles of Kirk and Spock and allowing for overt sexual tension (sorry, slashers...). Nimoy was quitting Trek every other minute and Shatner was grousing about how he wanted to move on so it seemed to make sense.
The received myth is that, only at the end of shooting TWoK did Nimoy realize he wanted to continue as Spock as the idea of passing a torch was quietly tabled. However, Merritt Butrick himself said that this was only a myth, that TSfS was pretty much being written as TWoK was being filmed and thus Saavik and David both lost a good deal of character development since it was pretty clear there would not be much need for them. As is so often the case with the stories
that come out from the trek production offices, we fans don't know what to believe.
EDIT: Ah, I see Dennis has already addressed these points.
Great post Dennis.
I can't believe I never noticed this before! I wonder if that scene in II was written with the sequel (and David's admission of also having cheated) in mind...
