Why Bibi Besch didn’t return?

[EnriqueH]

I think this may have been addressed a few years ago, but I can’t remember.

I liked Carol and thought Besch and Shatner had great chemistry. I enjoyed seeing this mature relationship at work. It’s a shame we never see her again.

I suppose she ultimately wasn’t needed per se. But we’re there any behind the scenes play by play as to why she didn’t return?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

I think it's just as simple as they didn't have a part for her in the story for STIII.

Nick Meyer and Denny Martin Flinn wrote Carol Marcus into the prologue for STVI (Kirk has reconciled with her and is going to settle down with her after he retires), but the sequence was cut before they started shooting to save on the budget.

 

[Kilana2]

I like Bibi Besch as Carol. Sadly she never returned, along with Brian Brophy. I doubt that this thread will beat the Brophy one, but you'll never know.

Besch died and her role was recast later. I'm not fond of the JJ movies, though. I enjoyed Carol's novel appearances. It was always with Bibi Besch in my mind's eye when I read the books.

 

[Relayer1]

I thought Gillian Taylor was a better match to be honest.

 

[EnriqueH]

I like Bibi Besch as Carol. Sadly she never returned, along with Brian Brophy. I doubt that this thread will beat the Brophy one, but you'll never know.

Am I tasking you?

 

[EnriqueH]

I thought Gillian Taylor was a better match to be honest.

It makes sense that we would think that since Gillian and Kirk were starting a relationship/flirting whereas Kirk and Carol were like amiable divorcees who care for another but are no longer romantically together.

 

[Kor]

In a thread a few years ago, someone said that Nimoy said that Bibi Besch had been upset that she wouldn't be returning for STIII, since the character was not included in the story.

Kor

 

[XCV330]

I like Bibi Besch as Carol. Sadly she never returned, along with Brian Brophy. I doubt that this thread will beat the Brophy one, but you'll never know.

Besch died and her role was recast later. I'm not fond of the JJ movies, though. I enjoyed Carol's novel appearances. It was always with Bibi Besch in my mind's eye when I read the books.

Was Bibi Besch the Brian Brophy of her age?
They both play super scientists
They both look great in blue.
They both mysteriously did not come back for their role in the sequel. Brophy was replaced by another actor, Besch was replaced by a giant black cylinder floating in space.
They both played characters who had to endure the SPOILER of their SPOILER, though they were already gone by then.

 

[EnriqueH]

Brophy! Brophy, you’re still alive my old friend!

 

[EnriqueH]

You’ve managed to thread jack every other thread with Brophyisms but like a poor marksman you keep mi-IS-ing the target!

 

[Mark 2000]

I thought Gillian Taylor was a better match to be honest.

She was too young for him, and I honestly never got the sense of a back and forth flirtation. She ran the second she got the chance.

 

[drt]

She was too young for him, and I honestly never got the sense of a back and forth flirtation. She ran the second she got the chance.

Yeah, Kirk's one-sided flirting with Taylor is pretty pathetic, he totally comes across as the old guy trying too hard and getting politely rebuffed. Seems like if they wanted there to be a budding romance the casting director should have hired an actress 10 years older and Nimoy directed her to be at least a little bit intrested in Kirk.

 

[Mark 2000]

Yeah, Kirk's one-sided flirting with Taylor is pretty pathetic, he totally comes across as the old guy trying too hard and getting politely rebuffed. Seems like if they wanted there to be a budding romance the casting director should have hired an actress 10 years older and Nimoy directed her to be at least a little bit intrested in Kirk.

You could make a case Kirk was flirting with Miri. The guy never turns it off.

 

[Maurice]

I haven't seen "Miri" in ages (pun intended) bit I always read it as Kirk understanding she's crushing on him and is just being kind and not hurting her feelings. I might change my mind if/when watching it again.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Yeah, Kirk's one-sided flirting with Taylor is pretty pathetic, he totally comes across as the old guy trying too hard and getting politely rebuffed.

I do kind of love Shatner's expression after Gillian Taylor's "See you around the galaxy" kiss-off. His perplexed look just reads to me as "I don't understand. I always scored more than this on the old TV show."

 

[Therin of Andor]

In a thread a few years ago, someone said that Nimoy said that Bibi Besch had been upset that she wouldn't be returning for STIII, since the character was not included in the story.

IIRC, a Harve Bennett interview in "Starlog" addressed Bennett having to explain to Bibi about her non-participation in ST III, but it was also a realisation that, if protomatter was used as a plot device, both Drs Marcus would be at fault, either complicit or through omission, and she would have to be killed off too. The script was seen as a delicate Karmic balancing act: to get Spock back - such a universe-shattering event - Kirk had to lose his son and then his ship.

 

[EnriqueH]

Now that you guys mention it, I felt that Gillian did give Kirk a few flirty looks, but it wasn’t a home run.

In fact, Catherine Hicks seems way more interested in Shatner than Gillian in Kirk. I forgot which DVD had the interview but Hicks seemed like she was thirsting for Shatner.

However, I disagree that he was too old for her. Never got that impression. There was a maturity about her. Kinda like I didn’t think Maud Adams was too young for Roger Moore, but Tanya Roberts was.

 

[Khan 2.0]

I have liked to see Gillian and Carol again .. say if Shatner had made a V that connected more to the past 3 films..including characters like Gillian & Carol in cameos/supporting. And brought back Saavik (probably Curtis) in a plot that had a return to the serious action of II and III after the yuks of IV.. but what? idk maybe something like what Shatner cooked up for Ashes of Eden.. it needed someone like Leonard to whisper into his ear 'no Bill..no' after reading his script for V ..and then explain it was too close to The Way to Eden and remember how that one turned out! (at least remake one of the good ones). then again Carol (& Gillian) and Saavik could've/should've been in VI (Carol in the abandoned opening. and maybe Gillian and Saavik could've cameod in the trial scene watching it Idk)

 

[valkyrie013]

Well like when Alice Eve wasn't invited back for Beyond.. Yes Carol could have been put in, but it would have been with a shoehorn and just be her in the background.
I can't even think of a way for her to be in 3 .. Maybe with her in Kirks appartment after sarek, saying to go, save your friend, then meet up at vulcan like Uhura.. She wouldn't have went with him to Genisis.. and see her break down on Vulcan after hearing that David is room temperature.. and space dust..

 

[Lance]

The thing that only slightly bothered me was that they re-recorded her Genesis tape monologue, word for word, with Shatner instead when it gets played in STIII, as though they weren't already using stock footage and couldn't have negotiated with her agent to reuse it. That one felt cheap, but was mostly just galling from a 'takes me out of the narrative' kind of way. Same deal with Superman II, the theatrical cut anyway, which re-records some of Marlon Brando's monologues to be delivered by Kal-El's mom instead, which again is perfectly legitimate, except it just takes me out of the narrative for just a second or two.