Why Bibi Besch didn’t return?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by EnriqueH, Mar 2, 2020.

  1. EnriqueH

    EnriqueH Commodore Commodore

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    I think they had to pay Brando a ton of money to use it, so they didn’t.

    I’m glad we finally got to see the footage, even though Reeve’s performance was more natural and less theatrical in the Richard Lester scenes
     
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  2. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It probably would've taken other people out of the narrative to have that be the only time that Carol popped up in the movie. With Shatner re-recording it, you don't have to explain who the blonde woman is and why she's important. Audiences know who Kirk is.
    Yeah, it bugs me in Superman II, too. Jor-El should be there, but blame the producers Alexander & Ilya Salkind for that.
    Yep. The Salkinds did a lot of things for monetary instead of creative reasons, and they were often shady in how they did them. If you've never heard of "The Salkind Clause", this link explains the basics of it (and is also amusingly wrong about whether or not the last Avengers film would be split into two parts).

    But in a nutshell, if you use an actor's footage in more than one movie, you have to pay them for the second movie, too. See also how outtakes of Crispin Glover's performance from the first Back to the Future were used in the second film without his permission. Glover sued, and doing stuff like that is no longer okay because he sued.
    The Brando/Reeve scene is an interesting scene on its own, but within the narrative of Superman the Movie, it stops the film dead. It was a good cut to make.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2020
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  3. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Admiral

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    Wait...what? Which Brando/Reeve scene in Superman The Movie? The one where they talk about keeping his identity secret?
     
  4. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    At the Fortress of Solitude after Superman's first night in Metropolis. Right before the scene where Lex Luthor is in his lair watching the news footage of Superman's debut. It ends with a really goofy looking attempted hug between Superman & Jor-El. It's in one of the expanded editions or else it's in the deleted scenes.
     
  5. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Admiral

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    Oh, you mean this...

    Supes reaches then realizes what he is doing. It's not exactly like they both go for the hug.

    I recall the only time the two actors were on set together was to film Joe El's image materializing to give Clark back his powers in Superman II (and only seen in the Donner Cut).
     
  6. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, but the attempted hug makes Superman look stupid, if for no other reason than the editing has Jor-El completely fading away before Superman even starts reaching for his image. Also, he's got no torso, Clark. He's just a big giant head. What the heck are you attempting to hug? :rolleyes:

    Plus, a three-minute dialogue scene between two actors who aren't even in the same room with each other right after the high of the "Superfeats" sequence just stops the movie cold. It drains all the energy out of the thing and makes the movie just feel like a slog.

    Like I said, it was a smart cut.
     
  7. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Moderator

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    Then he sued anyway and won, receiving backpay for the scenes Lara rerecorded.
     
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  8. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, she probably should've been older to be an appropriate love interest for Kirk, but that's been a thing in Hollywood for a long time. Even Bibi Besch was only 40 at the time that TWOK was released.

    Wow, I just checked, and Hicks is a full 20 years younger than Shatner. I didn't realize it was THAT big of an age gap between them.
    I remember Catherine Hicks saying in a Starlog interview, "I played it like I thought Kirk was cute and I liked him." But I agree that Kirk and Gillian seemed to have more of a friendly, flirty vibe than a romantic vibe.

    Personally, I like the idea of Kirk not automatically hitting on every available woman who crosses his path. If Gillian wasn't really into him like that, he'd respect that. We know from Kirk's speech to Charlie Evans in "Charlie X" that Kirk is a gentleman in affairs of the heart: