Why Bibi Besch didn’t return?

[EnriqueH]

I think they had to pay Brando a ton of money to use it, so they didn’t.

I’m glad we finally got to see the footage, even though Reeve’s performance was more natural and less theatrical in the Richard Lester scenes

 

[JonnyQuest037]

The thing that only slightly bothered me was that they re-recorded her Genesis tape monologue, word for word, with Shatner instead when it gets played in STIII, as though they weren't already using stock footage and couldn't have negotiated with her agent to reuse it. That one felt cheap, but was mostly just galling from a 'takes me out of the narrative' kind of way.

It probably would've taken other people out of the narrative to have that be the only time that Carol popped up in the movie. With Shatner re-recording it, you don't have to explain who the blonde woman is and why she's important. Audiences know who Kirk is.

Same deal with Superman II, the theatrical cut anyway, which re-records some of Marlon Brando's monologues to be delivered by Kal-El's mom instead, which again is perfectly legitimate, except it just takes me out of the narrative for just a second or two.

Yeah, it bugs me in Superman II, too. Jor-El should be there, but blame the producers Alexander & Ilya Salkind for that.

I think they had to pay Brando a ton of money to use it, so they didn’t.

Yep. The Salkinds did a lot of things for monetary instead of creative reasons, and they were often shady in how they did them. If you've never heard of "The Salkind Clause", this link explains the basics of it (and is also amusingly wrong about whether or not the last Avengers film would be split into two parts).

But in a nutshell, if you use an actor's footage in more than one movie, you have to pay them for the second movie, too. See also how outtakes of Crispin Glover's performance from the first Back to the Future were used in the second film without his permission. Glover sued, and doing stuff like that is no longer okay because he sued.

I’m glad we finally got to see the footage, even though Reeve’s performance was more natural and less theatrical in the Richard Lester scenes

The Brando/Reeve scene is an interesting scene on its own, but within the narrative of Superman the Movie, it stops the film dead. It was a good cut to make.

 

[Maurice]

The Brando/Reeve scene is an interesting scene on its own, but within the narrative of Superman the Movie, it stops the film dead. It was a good cut to make.

Wait...what? Which Brando/Reeve scene in Superman The Movie? The one where they talk about keeping his identity secret?

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Wait...what? Which Brando/Reeve scene in Superman The Movie? The one where they talk about keeping his identity secret?

At the Fortress of Solitude after Superman's first night in Metropolis. Right before the scene where Lex Luthor is in his lair watching the news footage of Superman's debut. It ends with a really goofy looking attempted hug between Superman & Jor-El. It's in one of the expanded editions or else it's in the deleted scenes.

 

[Maurice]

At the Fortress of Solitude after Superman's first night in Metropolis. Right before the scene where Lex Luthor is in his lair watching the news footage of Superman's debut. It ends with a really goofy looking attempted hug between Superman & Jor-El. It's in one of the expanded editions or else it's in the deleted scenes.

Oh, you mean this...

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Supes reaches then realizes what he is doing. It's not exactly like they both go for the hug.

I recall the only time the two actors were on set together was to film Joe El's image materializing to give Clark back his powers in Superman II (and only seen in the Donner Cut).

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Supes reaches then realizes what he is doing. It's not exactly like they both go for the hug.

Yeah, but the attempted hug makes Superman look stupid, if for no other reason than the editing has Jor-El completely fading away before Superman even starts reaching for his image. Also, he's got no torso, Clark. He's just a big giant head. What the heck are you attempting to hug?

Plus, a three-minute dialogue scene between two actors who aren't even in the same room with each other right after the high of the "Superfeats" sequence just stops the movie cold. It drains all the energy out of the thing and makes the movie just feel like a slog.

Like I said, it was a smart cut.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I think they had to pay Brando a ton of money to use it, so they didn’t.

Then he sued anyway and won, receiving backpay for the scenes Lara rerecorded.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

Seems like if they wanted there to be a budding romance the casting director should have hired an actress 10 years older and Nimoy directed her to be at least a little bit intrested in Kirk.

Yeah, she probably should've been older to be an appropriate love interest for Kirk, but that's been a thing in Hollywood for a long time. Even Bibi Besch was only 40 at the time that TWOK was released.

Wow, I just checked, and Hicks is a full 20 years younger than Shatner. I didn't realize it was THAT big of an age gap between them.

Now that you guys mention it, I felt that Gillian did give Kirk a few flirty looks, but it wasn’t a home run.

I remember Catherine Hicks saying in a Starlog interview, "I played it like I thought Kirk was cute and I liked him." But I agree that Kirk and Gillian seemed to have more of a friendly, flirty vibe than a romantic vibe.

Personally, I like the idea of Kirk not automatically hitting on every available woman who crosses his path. If Gillian wasn't really into him like that, he'd respect that. We know from Kirk's speech to Charlie Evans in "Charlie X" that Kirk is a gentleman in affairs of the heart:

KIRK: You go slow. You be gentle. I mean, it's not a one-way street, you know, how you feel and that's all. It's how the girl feels, too. Don't press, Charlie. If the girl feels anything for you at all, you'll know it. Do you understand?