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Who is going to win this election in November?

Who will win the general presidential election?

  • Donald Trump

    Votes: 37 22.7%
  • Hillary Clinton

    Votes: 126 77.3%

  • Total voters
    163
  • Poll closed .
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And... who was President in 1999? :vulcan:

Or, more to the point, when was the wrong country invaded?

Clinton was President in 1999. ;)

The exact year ISIS was created is irrelevant to their current status, though. What gave them a huge opportunity to make inroads in the ME to begin building their movement in earnest, and when did that happen? I think that gets at the answer one is looking for a lot more effectively!
 
Now he says it was sarcasm; which means he just hung his supporters out to dry. Is he just amusing himself for the attention?
 
Coincidentally, Trump is leading Clinton by over 30 points among non-college-educated Whites. So actually yes, his supporters actually are extremely stupid.
 
Equating the lack of a credential with being extremely stupid is...well, perhaps ironic is the kindest word.

Without regard to Trump, I know a good many non-college-educated folks who would not find the folks hereabouts intellectually formidable. ;)
 
Equating the lack of a credential with being extremely stupid is...well, perhaps ironic is the kindest word.

Without regard to Trump, I know a good many non-college-educated folks who would not find the folks hereabouts intellectually formidable. ;)

Well would most people blindly follow Trump without thinking first?
 
It's funny how this thread does not produce more conservative voices. It's as though conservatives are afraid to voice their opinions here.

I am not a fan of some things Trump has said, so I obviously will not defend those things. I definitely don't think he was the best choice among the Republican nominees. However, many who perpetuate that Trump will be a risk to American national security seem to be side-stepping the fact that Hillary has already taken significant risks with American national security...

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Despite this testimony, Hillary Clinton continues to lie to the public about lying under oath. It's unbelievable that she suffers no consequences, and it is clear that Hillary has even more blind followers than Trump.

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It is possible that Hillary's hacked e-mails, which we know mentioned Iranian scientist Shahram Amiri, lead to his execution for supplying the U.S. with information about Iran's nuclear program. So, if Hillary is to become president, why would anyone have confidence in providing the U.S. with sensitive intelligence in the future?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/mike-pence-hillary-clinton-emails_us_57a9fa8be4b06e52746db8be

I am really anxious to see what additional Hillary Clinton e-mails Julian Assange is promising to release in October. There will probably be much more to talk about then.

http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-emails-julian-assange-wikileaks-brexit-469480
 
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many who perpetuate that Trump will be a risk to American national security
It's as if you're suggesting that it's a fabrication that Trump would be a risk to US national security. Your way of expressing yourself there would be hilariously amusing, if it weren't so sadly an understatement to say that he would be such a risk.
 
This "liberals vs conservatives" nonsense is a huge part of the reason why we have to choose between two terrible choices. The simple fact of the matter is both candidates are extremely unpopular even in their own parties. However, Donald Trump has repeated proven he is the inferior of two bad choices. He IS a terrible risk to national security. There is no reason to vote for him. That's not "liberal" or "conservative". That's common sense.
 
Trump is more than just an extremist representative of a primitive ideology. He's mentally ill. Literally. If he weren't rich, he'd probably be among the homeless.
 
It's funny how this thread does not produce more conservative voices. It's as though conservatives are afraid to voice their opinions here.

If that were true it would be a significant moral failing on their part and would bode ill for their political success.
 
It's funny how this thread does not produce more conservative voices. It's as though conservatives are afraid to voice their opinions here.
Or it's that Trump is a godawful candidate and they're not willing to be intellectually dishonest apologists and defend him and vote for him just because the guy has an (R) next to his name? But I'm hopeful and optimistic like that.

If conservatives had something to be afraid of, why would I allow you to make that remark, or any of the hundreds of other similar remarks you've made on this board? Instead of seeing oppression around every corner of this message board, why don't you wake up and realize that you're carrying water for a genuine fascist sociopath who has flat-out said he would limit First Amendment rights, among several others which I pointed out earlier in the thread? Get some perspective and learn where the real problems are instead of whining about the mean moderators on the message board with zero effect on your life.

However, many who perpetuate that Trump will be a risk to American national security seem to be side-stepping the fact that Hillary has already taken significant risks with American national security...
Donald Trump perpetuates the image that he's a risk to national security on a daily basis. 50 senior Republican national security experts perpetuate the image that he's a risk to national security because he is.

Why is he asking questions like "Why are we still building nukes if we can't use them?" Why did he ask about using nukes three times in a security briefing, to the point where it scared the briefer enough to talk about it publicly? Why is he fine with nuclear proliferation to known terror sponsoring states like Saudi Arabia, and with forcing nukes on states that don't want them (Japan) or who are in a perpetual war footing (South Korea) because he'll pull our support for them? Why did he say he might use nukes as a response to ISIS?

Why is he already making military flag officers feel compelled to come out publicly and say that they would disobey his illegal orders to torture enemy combatants or purposely target the families of terrorists, both of which are war crimes? Why are intelligence agency directors saying they're concerned about giving him national intelligence briefings as a candidate because he has no self-control?

Why are the Russians subsidizing his personal finances and his many debts because he's burned his bridges with most US banks and feels compelled to lie about the size of his wealth to prop up his brand? Why does he directly ask the Russians to hack the emails of the Democratic National Committee in order to influence the election in his favor? Why does he constantly praise Putin's leadership (and vice versa) and admire his suppression of dissent through murder, imprisonment, and other strong-arm tactics? Why does he pretend the Russians aren't already in Ukraine, or doesn't know (see below)? Why does he make our Eastern European NATO allies feel like he would abandon them while they're extremely nervous about Russian aggression?

Why does he think Obama and Hillary founded ISIS when it existed before either of them were in the executive branch (oh, he was sarcastic, but not really, but only a little, but also totally serious)? Why does either he or his surrogate or both think Obama started the Afghanistan War in 2009? Why is he unaware of the Crimea situation and that Russia is already in the Ukraine? Why does he think Scotland was pro-Brexit?

Why is he calling for "2nd Amendment" solutions for making sure Hillary Clinton doesn't get to appoint Supreme Court justices after she's already been elected? Why is he inciting his violence prone, extremist crowds by suggesting that the election will be rigged before it's even happened and without any evidence of that? Why is he manufacturing a virtually non-existent voter fraud issue to not only exclude minority voters that oppose him but also to build up the narrative of a stolen election while he self-sabotages his campaign?

Why does he promise veterans charity funds from his fraudulant charity (which he uses to raise funds for himself, much like this election) and then not deliver until they publicly pressure him? Why does he attack the family of a deceased veteran and insinuate that the mother isn't allowed to speak because she's Muslim (she was just too distraught)? Why does he attack a decorated POW (John McCain) for being captured by the enemy? Why does he treat being given a Purple Heart by a veteran with all of the seriousness of finding a Pokemon? If he treats veterans like this now how can he be expected to treat them with respect when he's in office and not send them to die on a whim because Iran Tweets something mean at him and he's forced to respond?

Why is he talking about deporting and blocking Mexicans when there is zero net immigration, blocking Muslims from entering the country and registering the ones already here (or worse, internment camps), going back to Yellow Peril levels of demonization of the Chinese, and cracking down on freedom of the press to oppose it?

This is all just off the top of my head and there's literally so many more terrible things that he's said that it's impossible to keep up, so really, pull your head out of the goddamn sand already. He's not a sane candidate. And you can keep shouting "Buh, buh, but Hillary!" all you want, but she's not even in the same fucking league as Hair Mousselini. There's no shame in punting and trying again next time, but there is shame in supporting a fascist. You're making excuses for a fascist.
 
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I'd love to see posts by the other side and what conservatives have to say. It would add some balance.
This thread had plenty of conservative posts in it before Trump had his post-DNC meltdown and started attacking anyone who had ever wronged him even slightly like a character in an 80s high school revenge fantasy. They didn't go silent because anyone suppressed what they had to say, they went silent because there are some levels of batshit even they're not comfortable with being publicly associated with.
 
I voted for Clinton in the poll here, but not because I like her. Or Trump. I'll be voting 3rd party in November.
 
I'll certainly vote for Clinton, without heartburn, if my state is at all close.

My state won't be close, so I remain undecided.
 
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