Which Spin-off is Closest in "spirit" to TOS?
- Thread starter Emperor-Tiberius
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The start of ENT and the fourth season, seemed to be the closest.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
Voyager was too dark? Voyager was happy go-lucky, nothing is the matter even if we're stranding 70 years from home.
DS9 was the one that came cloest to TOS spirit: flawed people, albeit better than us, struggling with a harsh universe and trying to get better. The feel you get about the universe surrounding the Enterprise in TOS, is the same feel you get about the universe surrounding DS9. And TOS isn't happy go-lucky, nothing is the matter. Ever heard of "General Order 24"?
I suppose I really should answer this.
If, by SF storytelling, you mean high-concept-"what if we have a starship slam into the Enterprise seven times until a time-loop is broken"-driven puzzle boxes then yes, you are right. What I had in mind was a little different. TOS took SF, the stuff of kiddie shows and one-off anthology stories, and grafted onto it the storytelling techniques of the best adult drama/adventure shows of its time--"I Spy" in space, if you will. DS9 did something similar, more thoroughly utilizing the type of character and storyline development introduced in shows like "Hill Strret Blues" and "St. Elsewhere." Sadly, this technique is very similair to the m.o. of soap operas and DS9, with its many "Kira loves Odo" type stories, did become soap operatic from time to time. Occupational hazard.
But, even so, DS9 was a kind of high-concept SF: there is a long tradition of SF stories which delve deep into the political and religious machinations of their fictional universes. In that way, DS9 is not unlike Dune.
By striking out in new directions while showing the greatest reverence for TOS of any spin-off until ENT's fanwanky 4th season (no doubt, a sign of Braga's non-involvement), DS9 still gets my vote.
...in spirit..at least to some degree, I would have to say Enterprise. It removed those annoying B plots which always took up valuable air time, was more about exploring the unknown and the characters were not cut from Roddenberry's 24th century cloth of perfection. There was also a focus on the 3 main characters and no so much on the supporting cast...which is a good thing...it's just unfortunate that one of those 3 characters happened to be Archer. lol And it was more action orientd as well and didn't mind some good hand to hand fighting. Add to that some romance and sex and you can see that they were at least trying to capture the TOS style. Yep, while not quite as good a show as Ds9, I found it, continuity problems and all, infintely more entertaining than TNG and Voyager. And a lot of that was due to the obvious attempts at following the blueprint of TOS rather than 24th century Drek. Did they succeed? Not really, but at least they tried to be like TOS, and that's more than I can say for the other supposed Star Trek spin-offs.
DS9 was much darker and wasn't about exploring new worlds. TOS was about a peaceful people and happy people and about a good future. DS9 was an uncertain future and was completely station bound. And then you have the Maquis and Dominion add more uncertainty. The last thing TOS had was uncertainty really. Even with the Klingons or Romulans. DS9 went as far from the TOS spirit of any of the shows. This doesn't make DS9 the worst show it just makes it the most different.
Both DS9 and TOS explored the human nature and gave an introspective look on human relations on everything.
TOS wasn't really about a happy future, but more of a study of mankind through its travels and encounters with strange, new worlds.
DS9 picked that up much more than TNG, or VOY. I won't even discuss ENT...
Still, TNG is much humanetarian than TOS and DS9, and that works on its own favor... Gene Roddenberry was a different man by the time he made the ultra-utopian TNG (AND TMP, for that matter), and that is reflected in its first two seasons, quite clearly, mostly in the first, though.
Even the creators and writers of DS9 have admited their own desire to bring back the human controversy into Star Trek, that wasn't quite present in TNG by that time.
IMO, always.
TOS wasn't really about a happy future, but more of a study of mankind through its travels and encounters with strange, new worlds.
DS9 picked that up much more than TNG, or VOY. I won't even discuss ENT...
Still, TNG is much humanetarian than TOS and DS9, and that works on its own favor... Gene Roddenberry was a different man by the time he made the ultra-utopian TNG (AND TMP, for that matter), and that is reflected in its first two seasons, quite clearly, mostly in the first, though.
Even the creators and writers of DS9 have admited their own desire to bring back the human controversy into Star Trek, that wasn't quite present in TNG by that time.
IMO, always.
3D Master
Rear Admiral
Again: "General Order 24": the complete destruction of all life on a planet. TOS was about people; people who were generally a bit better than us, but they were uncivilized people. People with dark desires, violent impulses, and able of great dark acts. Like Kirk said: "We are barely civilized. But today we can decide not to fight, to decide to deny our animal instincts. And let tomorrow bring what tomorrow brings." TOS wasn't about good happy people, it was about people. DS9 was about people as well. The universe that DS9 showed, felt the most like the dangerous, dark universe TOS showed. And that means to me, it is the closes in spirit to the TOS.
I'm in the minority, but I'd say Voyager.
They tended to break SF rules more often.
More arguing than some of the others
less recurring characters
the recurring characters they had were SF--like on TOS
less contact with SF command
more cowboy attitude--despite a tendency to really not want to break rules--they had to.
more antaganism between Cap and 1st officer.
They tended to break SF rules more often.
More arguing than some of the others
less recurring characters
the recurring characters they had were SF--like on TOS
less contact with SF command
more cowboy attitude--despite a tendency to really not want to break rules--they had to.
more antaganism between Cap and 1st officer.
I felt one of the main unique elements of TOS was the crew's connection to the ship itself. In that regard, all four other shows did a fairly poor job.
About the only time the TNG crew showed that much connection was in "11001001" and "Starship Mine".
It was more present on DS9, but I still felt a sense of great detachment for the Starfleet people from the station itself. Kira, Odo, and Quark (understandably) had closer ties than anyone else.
The Voyager crew showed much more devotion to the ship itself because it was their only way home and their touchstone to Starfleet.
Likewise, the Enterprise crew was very attached to their brand new ship.
So, all things considered, I'd say from the "devotion to ship" standpoint that Enterprise was most TOS-like.
Of course there were many other factors within TOS that remained uniquely theirs.
--Ted
About the only time the TNG crew showed that much connection was in "11001001" and "Starship Mine".
It was more present on DS9, but I still felt a sense of great detachment for the Starfleet people from the station itself. Kira, Odo, and Quark (understandably) had closer ties than anyone else.
The Voyager crew showed much more devotion to the ship itself because it was their only way home and their touchstone to Starfleet.
Likewise, the Enterprise crew was very attached to their brand new ship.
So, all things considered, I'd say from the "devotion to ship" standpoint that Enterprise was most TOS-like.
Of course there were many other factors within TOS that remained uniquely theirs.
--Ted
I ask kindly for the moderators to close this topic (but not delete) because of a new version, a reboot, of the same subject has just been posted.
I would like to thank ALL the posters that have posted in this thread. The opinions and thoughts expressed here are of great value for all ST fans. I really want to thank for the participation, and only hope that Vol. 2 will generate similar discussions.
Thank you, very much.
And here, is the reboot: Which Spin-Off is closest to TOS in "spirit"? Volume 2
I would like to thank ALL the posters that have posted in this thread. The opinions and thoughts expressed here are of great value for all ST fans. I really want to thank for the participation, and only hope that Vol. 2 will generate similar discussions.
Thank you, very much.
And here, is the reboot: Which Spin-Off is closest to TOS in "spirit"? Volume 2
No....STNG was far subtler....TOS was far more "preachy", using endless straw cultures to demonstrate a point, and often the point was literally in black and white "Omega Glory", "let that be your Last Battlefield", *Taste of Armageddon" "The Cloudminders", "Platos Stepchildren" and on and on, etc.
Still STNG by far comes closest to the original spirit of TOS, while improving upon it. A rare and wonderful sequel success story. The most highly evolved TV series ever.
RAMA
I agree. And I would add that, although DS9 was far from TOS in premise, in spirit it did the most to carry on what made TOS great (to me): adult men and women doing an oft-times dirty job in a very dangerous environment. Too much of TNG--particularly too much of the first two seasons--seemed way too intent on forcing a sense of wonder onto us instead of letting it grow organically from the stories being told. Not only that, the overriding antiseptic feel of the show's characterizations made the bursts of conflict between them (and there is a fair amount even in the early episodes) seem artificial, childish and petulant (to be fair, Kira came off this way during DS9's early episodes). At times, it felt as if we were watching a twelve-year-old's idea of what adult conversation sounds like.
JonnyQuest037 said:
I would say that that it was usually more akin to trying to pass tofu off as filet mignon.
Amen.
Again, thank you!
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