when did TOS take place, 23rd century or 22nd century

[Gov Kodos]

This is what constituted comedy back then.

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[Marsden]

"Tacit" my ass.

Thanks for sharing your ass, Dennis.

 

[Mudd]

Thanks for sharing your ass, Dennis.

It's falling off a log, really...

 

[Nerys Myk]

He's not wrong.

 

[JonnyQuest037]

(How do you think the cute blonde in "The Cage" got to bump into the Lead Actor and get a speaking line: "Name's Smith, Sir."??)

I think it's worth noting that although Roddenberry apparently had designs on Andrea Dromm, according to quotes from Herb Solow and Dromm herself on Memory Alpha, nothing happened there.

Dromm was slated to become a regular on Star Trek, though studio executive Herb Solow, somewhat cynically, recalled in what matter Dromm was brought aboard, "Model Andrea Dromm, also fitting the mold [i.e. being cute, shapely, bubbly and not too bright, at least for Gene Roddenberry according to Solow], came aboard for the second pilot as Yeoman Smith. Actually, it was a non-part. But during the casting process, director Jimmy Goldstone overheard Gene say, "I'm hiring her because I want to score with her." It was not only a non-part, I'm sure it was a non-score as well." (Inside Star Trek: The Real Story, p. 75) When asked about it decades later, Dromm was surprised, and said, "I had no problems with Gene at all. I thought he was a very nice man." (Lisanti, p. 16)

If GR was around and had produced Star Trek in the same way he did in the 1960ies with what he pulled as Executive Producer - he'd be part of the #Metoo crowd of Hollywood typoes getting sued and fired.

I'm sure.

...So, is everyone good with the 23rd Century, then? Yeah? Okay. cool.

 

[Marsden]

...So, is everyone good with the 23rd Century, then? Yeah? Okay. cool.

Works for me!

 

[Nyotarules]

Maybe, you could also explain how dramatically different ST: Enterprise and Discovery looks compare to TOS and how does it fit... in universe?

Do you also need an in universe explanation for the dramatically different Saavik in TWOK and Saavik in TSFS?

 

[Noname Given]

Do you also need an in universe explanation for the dramatically different Saavik in TWOK and Saavik in TSFS?

Um...she had a REALLY INTERESTING "Ponn Far" experience in the interim? (Everyone said it "Changed" her...)

 

[johnnybear]

I’m just saying that sooner or later they will ruin the series for some people by doing something stupid. I have no idea what but I’m sure they will. Some times just let a horse rest.

I think for some of us they already have! This weird obsession they have with setting their shows pre-TOS is what annoys us! If they set their show after VOY then we couldn't argue with the changes made! Bald conker headed Klingons and Mirror Universe errors would no longer be errors!
JB

 

[johnnybear]

That not called canon, that's called watching what you like .

What from D C Fontana? No, I think it's only an error because the writers and producers hadn't yet settled on a name for the governing body behind Kirk! UESPA may also have been one of the earlier names for the space faring organisation that was sending men out into space!
JB

 

[Nerys Myk]

What from D C Fontana? No, I think it's only an error because the writers and producers hadn't yet settled on a name for the governing body behind Kirk! UESPA may also have been one of the earlier names for the space faring organisation that was sending men out into space!
JB

Connect the dots between my post and your comment.

 

[Mytran]

Do you also need an in universe explanation for the dramatically different Saavik in TWOK and Saavik in TSFS?

Here's a thought: What if these were actually TWO people in-universe?

1. Lt JG Saavik who is a recent Academy graduate, half Romulan and Spock's protege. The emotional turmoil got to her and she went on shore leave after ST2
2. Lt Sa'vique is a more experienced officer and full Vulcan, who was posted to the Reliant and got rescued by Enterprise. Kirk got to know her a bit before she and David Marcus were reassigned to the Grissom.

Is there anything in the films that would contradict this theory?

 

[Christopher]

Here's a thought: What if these were actually TWO people in-universe?

1. Lt JG Saavik who is a recent Academy graduate, half Romulan and Spock's protege. The emotional turmoil got to her and she went on shore leave after ST2
2. Lt Sa'vique is a more experienced officer and full Vulcan, who was posted to the Reliant and got rescued by Enterprise. Kirk got to know her a bit before she and David Marcus were reassigned to the Grissom.

Is there anything in the films that would contradict this theory?

Saavik's "Just like your father -- so human" line to David in TSFS is a direct callback to Saavik's dialogue with Spock in TWOK. Ditto her "Like your father, you changed the rules" line. On top of the huge coincidence you're suggesting, there'd have to be the additional coincidence that her brief acquaintance with Kirk just happened to make her aware of the exact same parts of his personality that Saavik spoke about in TWOK.

Also, would someone who was a stranger to Spock go so far on his behalf as Saavik did in TSFS?

 

[Mytran]

Also, would someone who was a stranger to Spock go so far on his behalf as Saavik did in TSFS?

If there were no emotion involved (and why would there be if she was a full Vulcan?) and it was the logical thing to do, why not?

As for the rest, these are script callbacks but not necessarily character callbacks. Perhaps Chekov used to tell entertaining tales of his old captain down in the Reliant rec room?

 

[Christopher]

If there were no emotion involved (and why would there be if she was a full Vulcan?)

Because Vulcans are inherently very emotional. Logic is something they have to learn in order to control it. Which is why TWOK's filmmakers edited out the lines about Saavik being volatile because she was half-Romulan. Not only are Romulans biologically the same as Vulcans, but Vulcans are inherently highly volatile to begin with (see "All Our Yesterdays" or ENT: "Impulse") which is why they need to control their emotions so tightly.

As for the rest, these are script callbacks but not necessarily character callbacks. Perhaps Chekov used to tell entertaining tales of his old captain down in the Reliant rec room?

If this alternate Saavik were as hyper-Vulcan as you postulate, then she'd never be so familiar in talking about a superior officer she barely knew.

 

[Mytran]

If this alternate Saavik were as hyper-Vulcan as you postulate, then she'd never be so familiar in talking about a superior officer she barely knew.

Good point - Sa'vique (while not as inexperienced as Saavik) is still a young Vulcan and susceptible to inappropriate behaviour or a smug attitude form time to time (heck, many elder Vulcans have been seen to portray the latter!)

Purely going by what we see on screen though, what exactly did she do for teenage Spock that is so extraordinary - rub his finger? Since the pregnancy scene in ST4 was deleted, we really don't know what she did to Spock to calm him down. Vulcans are touch telepaths after all, so she may have been able to transfer some of her emotional control to him.

 

[Christopher]

Look, I'm not going to get dragged into wasting my time on this silly premise. It was the same Saavik. She was just recast.

 

[Tenacity]

Do you also need an in universe explanation for the dramatically different Saavik in TWOK and Saavik in TSFS?

Transferring to the Grissom, there was a tragic transporter accident which altered her appearance and additionally made her considerably less interesting.

 

[Mytran]

Look, I'm not going to get dragged into wasting my time on this silly premise. It was the same Saavik. She was just recast.

Of course! But the question was why (in universe, presumably) was there was such a dramatic difference in appearance between the Saavik in ST2 and the Saavik in ST3.

Transferring to the Grissom, there was a tragic transporter accident which altered her appearance and additionally made her considerably less interesting.

This is as good an explanation as any!
I would also volunteer that she went through the Pon-Face, an ancient Vulcan ritual that involves extensive plastic surgery

 

[Nerys Myk]

It was the damn Augment Virus. It's a bloody epidemic.