when did TOS take place, 23rd century or 22nd century

[Henoch]

And again, "UESPA became the Federation" is a nonsensical statement. How can a Space Probe Agency become an entire nation? That's like saying the DMV became the State of Ohio, or that the British Museum became the United Kingdom. It's utterly meaningless.

Our interpretations just vary.

United Earth government is a member planet in the Federation (like the USA is a member of the UN). UESPA was the United Earth government organization put in charge of its space program. The space program's command and control was called Starfleet under UESPA. At this point, Earth starships reported to Starfleet Command, which reported to UESPA, which reported to United Earth government, which was a member (but not under any real obligation) of the Federation. The Federation council would request starship support from various member planets. In United Earth's case, if they decided to help, then they ordered UESPA to send a ship. UESPA would order Starfleet Command to send a ship. Starfleet Command would order a starship to go someplace. A real bureaucracy. In the meantime, United Earth is sending its starships out without any real coordination with the Federation or any of the other member planets.

When United Earth decided to slimline the bureaucracy, improve coordination of space assets between other planets and beef up the military arm of the Federation (probably due to the new Romulan threat), United Earth dissolved UESPA and transferred Starfleet Command and its assets to the Federation and also put the combined starship assets of all member planets under Starfleet Command. Starfleet Command now reports direct to the Federation and member states are to provide military assets based on treaty agreements. During the transition of Starfleet to the Federation, starships in the field were still trying figure out "who's on first."

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ That's not far off from the novelverse explanation. Specifically, the Rise of the Federation novels that @Christopher has been doing. Link

 

[STEPhon IT]

Canon is bullshit, honestly. TAS wasn’t canonical until it was. Retcons happen within series and cross series. Hell, in Star Wars, the books were canonical until Disney/Lucasfilm said they weren’t.

Someone else can walk in and take over Trek, rewrite the whole thing and call “canon!!!”

Accept what makes you happiest.

Had this spread sheet laying around on the Season 1 sponsoring organizations for the show:

Note that there is an overlap when UESPA and Federation are both in existence at the same time while in transition in Tomorrow is Yesterday (ep. 19) and Arena (ep.18), respectively; also note that Starfleet is in control/command of the Enterprise in both episodes. Prior to that, it was UESPA with Starfleet Control/Command; After that, it was Federation with Starfleet Command.

Rapid progress. Nothing new, but there's no refuting TOS was in the 22nd Century. No episode from TOS series contradicts this fact; Squire of Gothos was on another planet and wasn't near Earth. Those retcon chronology books and Encyclopedias are the ones who making things up as they went along to glue and paste timelines that will never mesh with TOS. People are open to force fit this foolishness, along with St:Enterprise and Discovery, as long as they want. I won't. TOS played it straight and the world and timeline was beauty.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Rapid progress. Nothing new, but there's no refuting TOS was in the 22nd Century. No episode from TOS series contradicts this fact; Squire of Gothos was on another planet and wasn't near Earth. Those retcon chronology books and Encyclopedias are the ones who making things up as they went along to glue and paste timelines that will never mesh with TOS. People are open to force fit this foolishness, along with St:Enterprise and Discovery, as long as they want. I won't. TOS played it straight and the world and timeline was beauty.

What about Gene Roddenberry's own words in The Making of Star Trek (1968), when he discusses the crew as people of the 23rd century? Doesn't that count as Gene establishing his vision of what Star Trek was supposed to be?

 

[BillJ]

No episode from TOS series contradicts this fact...

TMP does. With Decker's line about Voyager VI launching more than three hundred years ago.

 

[Gabriel]

Rapid progress. Nothing new, but there's no refuting TOS was in the 22nd Century. No episode from TOS series contradicts this fact; Squire of Gothos was on another planet and wasn't near Earth. Those retcon chronology books and Encyclopedias are the ones who making things up as they went along to glue and paste timelines that will never mesh with TOS. People are open to force fit this foolishness, along with St:Enterprise and Discovery, as long as they want. I won't. TOS played it straight and the world and timeline was beauty.

Well as someone once said on this site: your mileage may vary. Basically we have different opinions. You believe one think and other something else. Although I’m hesitant to trust what is said in tos fully because they flux a lot on their “facts”. And plus to me it all fits just fine. I mean the enterprise was in one episode a UE ship and another a Federation ship. Remember these episodes were made on what today would be what the pay to cater the crews. I’m sure they did not have a lot of time to really think this out. Although henoch did a good job explaining that.
But I think we can agree on one thing: it was a hell of a show before it’s time. Also I’m glad we can all say are opinions respectful. You can’t get that everywhere.

 

[BillJ]

Remember these episodes were made on what today would be what the pay to cater the crews.

Just a correction here: Star Trek was one of the most expensive shows on TV at the time.

 

[Gabriel]

Also I had no idea Christopher L. Bennett was on here. @Christopher I love your books

 

[Gabriel]

Just a correction here: Star Trek was one of the most expensive shows on TV at the time.

Well I meant in comparison to today’s budget. I mean if they were so expensive they would have gotten better quality uniforms. I love them but they could use some improvements.

 

[Marsden]

Canon is bullshit, honestly. TAS wasn’t canonical until it was. Retcons happen within series and cross series. Hell, in Star Wars, the books were canonical until Disney/Lucasfilm said they weren’t.

Someone else can walk in and take over Trek, rewrite the whole thing and call “canon!!!”

Accept what makes you happiest.

Canon and canon, what is Canon!


The only ones that should care if something is canon is the stockholders, because they are making money from it. Canon just means they own it and you can't use it without paying. I've never understood why anyone cared about it, excepting of course, the authors and writers that are directed to follow it in subsequent works. Any regular consumer can enjoy anything equally, I myself enjoy my Whitman Star Trek comic books, canon or not.

So, somebody says, "Discovery is canon!" that only means CBS is trying to make a profit with it, it has no bearing on continuity, consistency, or inclusiveness. CBS has the right to make a new show, say it's in the "prime" universe and make Kirk a black woman and Spock a Martian. So what if it doesn't make sense, it would still be canon.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Well they do if they decide not to accept what is being put out, Jonny! If I only watch my DVD collection and nothing else (and I've been contemplating this for quite a while) and do not watch anything after a certain date or do not buy the next set then I'm making my own canon in that way!
JB

That not called canon, that's called watching what you like .

 

[Nerys Myk]

I always thought that Kirk said that to Christopher as to not give away too much knowledge about the future!
JB

No it come from a sloppy rewrite.

 

[Gabriel]

That not called canon, that's called watching what you like .

Your right but that could be called head canon. And well it would make sense for Kirk to hide the future from captain Christopher but that’s irrelevant because he mentions UESPA in a earlier episode so it is just a bad rewrite. And on a related note if I could have one wish it would be for CBS to be forced to retire the Star Trek franchise for good.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

Head-canon is not a kind of canon. Head-canon is a facetious oxymoron.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Fans don't determine what's canon and what's not.

But when a show starts off with early installment weirdness, and has lots of world building dialog that isnt' entirely consistent from episode to episode, head canon becomes as legit as anything else, because the show is open to interpretation.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

But when a show starts off with early installment weirdness, and has lots of world building dialog that isn't entirely consistent from episode to episode, head canon becomes a fan's prerogative.

Certainly. I have my own head-canon. It's a right I have as a part of my pursuit of happiness. There are many aspects of my head-canon that aren't remotely canonical, and I don't confuse my head-canon with canon.

 

[Christopher]

And on a related note if I could have one wish it would be for CBS to be forced to retire the Star Trek franchise for good.

Why? Just so it won't change or grow anymore? Your attitude reminds me of the main villain in the Japanese series Kamen Rider OOO. He was obsessed with death and wanted to destroy the world because he thought people or things could only be perfect if they ended before they could change into something different.

 

[ZapBrannigan]

Why? Just so it won't change or grow anymore? Your attitude reminds me of the main villain in the Japanese series Kamen Rider OOO. He was obsessed with death and wanted to destroy the world because he thought people or things could only be perfect if they ended before they could change into something different.

Maybe the trouble is that, much like Disney, CBS has turned its space adventure franchise into a woke indoctrination franchise. The property is being used to normalize some extreme ideological dogma.

 

[Gabriel]

head-canon with canon.

And neither do I. Although my “head” canon” is basically I skip over the I Animated Series. I don’t know I just find it weird.

 

[Gabriel]

Why? Just so it won't change or grow anymore? Your attitude reminds me of the main villain in the Japanese series Kamen Rider OOO. He was obsessed with death and wanted to destroy the world because he thought people or things could only be perfect if they ended before they could change into something different.

I’m just saying that sooner or later they will ruin the series for some people by doing something stupid. I have no idea what but I’m sure they will. Some times just let a horse rest.