When did the Janeway hatred truly start to coalesce?

[Oddish]

Latent Image was one of those 1 in 1000 situations that Dr. Zimmerman didn't allow for. Two patients, identical danger, identical chance of recovery, similar age, similar value to the crew. Tuvix's situation was completely different: the Doctor's ethical subroutines were crystal clear.

 

[Summer Solstice]

Latent Image was one of those 1 in 1000 situations that Dr. Zimmerman didn't allow for. Two patients, identical danger, identical chance of recovery, similar age, similar value to the crew. Tuvix's situation was completely different: the Doctor's ethical subroutines were crystal clear.

Whilst "Latent Image" is very good drama, computer programs don't work the way the Doctor does in that episode. Suppose the EMH has a database of who is on Voyager and he orders that information by "priority" ie who is the most valuable to the crew. No one on that list will be in the same position as anyone else, even if the secondary sort order is something trivial like the order in which they were added to the database. Even if you don't specify a secondary sort order parameter, the database still uses one.

 

[Oddish]

Maybe the mathematics of the value of Ensigns Kim and Jetal were essentially the same.

 

[jackoverfull]

Whilst "Latent Image" is very good drama, computer programs don't work the way the Doctor does in that episode. Suppose the EMH has a database of who is on Voyager and he orders that information by "priority" ie who is the most valuable to the crew. No one on that list will be in the same position as anyone else, even if the secondary sort order is something trivial like the order in which they were added to the database. Even if you don't specify a secondary sort order parameter, the database still uses one.

well, in fact the potential unethical status of such lists is surging to notoriety lately: does an automatic car kill the pedestrian or turns, crashing itself and killing its passenger? This question is still quite unanswered.

 

[Oddish]

That's why, despite being superior to humans in terms of reaction time, attention span, lack of impairment, and precision, self driving cars are still not a thing.

 

[Captrek]

That's why, despite being superior to humans in terms of reaction time, attention span, lack of impairment, and precision, self driving cars are still not a thing.

They’re getting pretty darn close to being a thing. You will see it happen in your lifetime.

 

[DonIago]

Latent Image was one of those 1 in 1000 situations that Dr. Zimmerman didn't allow for. Two patients, identical danger, identical chance of recovery, similar age, similar value to the crew. Tuvix's situation was completely different: the Doctor's ethical subroutines were crystal clear.

It was a joke in any case.

Though it does make you wonder how many other situations that Zimmerman didn't program for might have had a not-so-unreasonable chance of coming up given The Doctor's unusual run parameters.

 

[Captrek]

It was a joke in any case.

Though it does make you wonder how many other situations that Zimmerman didn't program for might have had a not-so-unreasonable chance of coming up given The Doctor's unusual run parameters.

Maybe Zimmerman did anticipate the situation, but just figured that if it did ever happen, the affected EMH would simply be rebooted.

 

[Oddish]

They’re getting pretty darn close to being a thing. You will see it happen in your lifetime.

And probably get reduced to cat food under the wheels of one. Another martyr to progress...

 

[jackoverfull]

They’re getting pretty darn close to being a thing. You will see it happen in your lifetime.

exactly.

Maybe Zimmerman did anticipate the situation, but just figured that if it did ever happen, the affected EMH would simply be rebooted.

good point!

And probably get reduced to cat food under the wheels of one. Another martyr to progress...

Automatic Vehicles have _already_ a better driving record than the usual human driver.

 

[Oddish]

It is true that the EMH stands for EMERGENCY Medical Hologram. If it wasn't intended to run a Sickbay, it didn't need sophisticated triage protocols.

Maybe the EMH Mark IV had them, and hopefully the LMH did.

 

[fireproof78]

And probably get reduced to cat food under the wheels of one. Another martyr to progress...

As long as tech progresses who cares about human lives, am I right?

As for the episode in question, it just is a reflection of the EMH serving outside it's purpose.

It is true that the EMH stands for EMERGENCY Medical Hologram. If it wasn't intended to run a Sickbay, it didn't need sophisticated triage protocols.

Maybe the EMH Mark IV had them, and hopefully the LMH did.

Exactly.

 

[Oddish]

As long as tech progresses who cares about human lives, am I right?

Computer driven vehicles would probably be completely safe... if ever other vehicle on the road was computer driven. It's dealing with unpredictable humans that's the problem.

As for the episode in question, it just is a reflection of the EMH serving outside it's purpose.

Even so, it would be easy enough to resolve. Simply rewrite the EMH's ethical subroutines to allow it to make subjective decisions, if and only if it cannot decide objectively.

 

[jackoverfull]

As long as tech progresses who cares about human lives, am I right?

Computer driven vehicles would probably be completely safe... if ever other vehicle on the road was computer driven. It's dealing with unpredictable humans that's the problem.

the funny thing is that if we switched the whole car park to, say, 50% automatic tomorrow, with today’s technology, the rate of accidents would plummet ludicrously, yet we’ve got plenty of luddites scared by the new thing.

 

[fireproof78]

the funny thing is that if we switched the whole car park to, say, 50% automatic tomorrow, with today’s technology, the rate of accidents would plummet ludicrously, yet we’ve got plenty of luddites scared by the new thing.

You keep saying luddite like that accurately describes me.

It doesn't. I'm not opposed to new technology. I'm opposed to wholesale embracing without any consideration of human cost. I am skeptical of promises that can't be kept.

 

[jackoverfull]

But promises *have* been kept: today’s self-driving vehicles have already better driving records than most humans.

 

[fireproof78]

But promises *have* been kept: today’s self-driving vehicles have already better driving records than most humans.

Good.

I will remain skeptical.

 

[Oddish]

But promises *have* been kept: today’s self-driving vehicles have already better driving records than most humans.

Can you cite a reliable source for that?

 

[jackoverfull]

Can you cite a reliable source for that?

i’ll be happy to!
For example: https://interestingengineering.com/how-safe-are-self-driving-cars

note that even if in _almost all cases_ the culprit of an accident involving a self-driving vehicle was in fact a human, skewing then the statistics, those statistics are still in favour of the self-driving cars by order of magnitude.

this article is also quite interesting: https://www.forbes.com/sites/lancee...-cars-to-humans-at-the-wheel/?sh=58dbc07d46ed

I find fascinating that 60% of fatal accidents are caused by either the driver being drunk or speeding, situations that clearly wouldn’t happen with an artificial intelligence at the wheel.

 

[jackoverfull]

On a side note, all new autos sold in the EU starting this year MUST have a system that prevents a drunk driver to start the car. This is, imho, a good step in the right direction.