When did the Janeway hatred truly start to coalesce?

[Farscape One]

What puzzles me more is: How come Mirror Ben exist(ed) in the first place? After all, in our universe, the prophets interfered in order to make sure he would be born.

Actually, I have an explanation for that. A theory, anyway... plus, it would explain why the Prophets didn't recognize him in "EMISSARY".

Remember the end of "ACCESSION"? Kira says it was a shame Akorem never finished that one poem. But Sisko says he did, and shows her the completed poem. Though the timeline was altered, Kira still remembers the old, unfinished poem. Apparently, the Prophets can alter the past without changing memories of the present people.

Since they live outside linear time, when they meet Sisko, they decide to go into the past to make sure he was born. Or very possibly, the 'penance' refers to their decision to do this, since they stopped the Dominion fleet in early season 6 and he doesn't find out about Sarah until the beginning of season 7. His birth would have happened anyway, because Joseph met his second wife only shortly later because Ben always thought she was his mother. But because the Prophets can do things to alter time without actually altering events, Sisko can be born in both universes. This also would explain why there is an Orb of the Emissary now when there was never even a hint of one before.

 

[at Quark's]

^Interesting theory. So, their 'penance' is that now he is even more tied / indebted to them, now owing his existence (although he would have existed anyway) to them as well?

Providence as punishment. It's certainly an original tack.

 

[Danja]

You know, that's a good point. There's a long history of people mistaking parodies for the real thing. For instance, a lot of the public perception of William Shatner's acting style is based on comedians' exaggerated impressions of him rather than on the real thing. And there are people who have vaguely heard of the Saturday Night Live "Get a Life" sketch but missed the part where it was a scripted comedy bit, so they believe Shatner really went on an insulting rant against fans at a convention.

Not limited to Trek, either. There's a widespread perception that President Gerald Ford was a klutz, because Chevy Chase made that a routine part of his Ford impression on SNL, based on one or two times that Ford was caught stumbling on camera. Ford was really pretty athletic and coordinated, but the public paid more attention to the spoof than the reality.

I once read an article about Shatner's acting on Trek.

The scripts were being rewritten SO quickly on set, he had no idea what he was supposed to say from one moment to the next! (Hence, his ... staccato ... delivery. He was waiting for his cue!)

 

[Ragitsu]

Q: be it partially or fully, were the contents of Voyager's logs public knowledge?

 

[fireproof78]

What puzzles me more is: How come Mirror Ben exist(ed) in the first place? After all, in our universe, the prophets interfered in order to make sure he would be born.

I think in another thread someone mention essential a mirror quantum theory, that for ever person born in Prime there would be some sort of quantum mirroring done in the mirror universe. I'm explaining it poorly, but it's why the two universes appear to closely tied together in terms of people being born, until the divergence happened more and more and split away.

 

[Danja]

Q: be it partially or fully, were the contents of Voyager's logs public knowledge?

Ships' logs appear to be public knowledge on Lower Decks (Boimler LOVES Tom Paris. Data has dolls made in his image!)

 

[fireproof78]

Ships' logs appear to be public knowledge on Lower Decks (Boimler LOVES Tom Paris. Data has dolls made in his image!)

Don't forget the Geordi Bears!

 

[Oddish]

Smiley was an ok guy as well.

Maybe. But I think Mirror Ben would have happily rebuilt the Terran Empire, given the chance.

think in another thread someone mention essential a mirror quantum theory, that for ever person born in Prime there would be some sort of quantum mirroring done in the mirror universe. I'm explaining it poorly, but it's why the two universes appear to closely tied together in terms of people being born, until the divergence happened more and more and split away.

Maybe there was a mirror Jake, he just died young or something.

 

[Ragitsu]

Ships' logs appear to be public knowledge on Lower Decks (Boimler LOVES Tom Paris. Data has dolls made in his image!)

Assuming that is the case, there could very well be ships displaying "JUSTICE FOR TUVIX" in Earth's orbit.

 

[Captrek]

Maybe there was a mirror Jake, he just died young or something.

Mirror Jennifer says, “I look at Jake and all I see is the son that I'll never have.” That seems to suggest that she never had a son.

 

[DonIago]

Assuming that is the case, there could very well be ships displaying "JUSTICE FOR TUVIX" in Earth's orbit.

Those logs were sealed.

 

[DonIago]

Mirror Jennifer says, “I look at Jake and all I see is the son that I'll never have.” That seems to suggest that she never had a son.

Well, or it could mean that he died very young.

There was a novel in which Trelane alleged that in every timeline Jack Crusher died...except one where he lived but Wesley died as a young boy.

 

[Danja]

Assuming that is the case, there could very well be ships displaying "JUSTICE FOR TUVIX" in Earth's orbit.

LMAO

Shhh ... Spoilers!

 

[Oddish]

One thing I have been doing lately is trying to analyze how things might have been different if Tuvix had lived.
* What would he have done differently in "Resolutions"?
* How would Janeway have felt about effectively allowing Tuvok, one of her closest friends, to die?
* How would Tuvix himself feel? Would he think about the men he displaced? Would he wonder if he was wrong to want to live?
* Finally, it's stated in Janeway's autobiography that our captain suffered a lot due to her decision. Would he feel vindicated? Or would he urge her to forgive herself?

 

[DonIago]

Perhaps if Janeway hadn't been so hasty to perform the procedure Our Heroes could have found a way to have their cake and eat it too. Restore Tuvok and Neelix while keeping Tuvix alive.

 

[Oddish]

I think that the only time a person was successfully duplicated via transporter was under very specific atmospheric conditions.

 

[jackoverfull]

I think that the only time a person was successfully duplicated via transporter was under very specific atmospheric conditions.

it has happened twice now. But only once by then.

 

[DonIago]

Given Our Heroes' success rate with achieving the impossible when they put their minds to it, perhaps they just needed to do a bit more research. Good thing their captain has a background in the sciences!

 

[Oddish]

The real problem was Contracts, Budgets, and the Big Red Beset Button.

Not as catchy as "Treacgery, Faith, and the Great River", but it has a certain ring to it.

I do wonder, though, in-universe... if Janeway had spoken to the Doctor instead of Kes, would she have made a different choice?

 

[DonIago]

Given the events of "Latent Image"(?), perhaps it's for the best that she didn't.