When did the Janeway hatred truly start to coalesce?

I actually would have preferred if she did once or twice. Every other captain did.

 

Don't know how to tell you guys this, but I was just spouting a 24th century version of the old Chuck Norris trope: "Chuck Norris's tears can cure cancer... too bad he's never cried."

 

I was specifically responding to the "Too bad she's never cried (outside of" bit. Not obvious enough?

 

Well, the GOAT took a punch from a Kazon in the episode "Basics" and didn't cry; I know if it was me who was punched I'd be crying. Another example from the Great One.

 

Oh, I know. Just can't yhink of a time Janeway cried that's all.

 

This has got to be the most petty complaint I've ever come across about Janeway. You're criticizing her for not crying? Seriously? Oh my God. I don't recall Leia Organa ever crying. Are you guys going to complain about that?

 

Punting around the speculation ball can be fun. Plus, considering all the wonky behind-the-scenes decisions that this show had to endure, would it truly be so surprising to find out that the character of Janeway was guided/modified in a certain way to ward off complaints?

 

TBF, we saw a lot less of Leia Organa than we saw of Kathryn Janeway.

I could imagine her crying when Alderaan was destroyed...but not in front of Tarkin and Vader.

 

Remember that I excluded "Coda" only because there were no physical tears to collect. When Janeway was listening to Harry and B'Elanna eulogizing her in that episode, a tear trickled down her cheek. If this is simply about Janeway was never moved to tears, I'm calling bull-crap.

 

By that standard, most of Voyager's crew is made of sterner stuff; we never saw anyone cry while confronting Neelix's "dishes".

 

Human beings don't wash dishes in the future.

(I know what you meant.)

People sit down in the mess, eat hand made food, and then put their dishes and food scraps back into the replicator.

Doesn't decompiling food scraps and dishes take up as much power as replicating food in the first place?

 

There are traces of tears (not a fully formed tear) on her face in the death scene in Resistance.

 

It should. That's why, in "Year of Hell", Janeway should have accepted the watch, thanked Chakotay, and admonished him not to make any more nonessential items until they had energy to spare again.

 

The GOAT is forever strong, the icon of icons, and the blue print for other greatest characters like Rey Palpatine, Hope Van Dyne, Captain Marvel (MCU), Galadriel and many more...

 

2nd and third tier characters.

Galadriel is no Karen Walker.

 

^I agree. It doesn't matter much whether we actually saw her cry, tears rolling down her face, or not.

If she were incapable of emotions that cause others to cry, now that might be worrying. But given how Janeway is played, I don't believe that for a second.

 

Yeah... she made Fear crap a brick, sent death back to hell empty-handed, and blew off an amorous Q like he was a random drunk in a bar. So would a few tears at an emotional moment counterbalance that level of bad-? No way.

 

Uh...someone here spoiled a semi-recent film. Yikes.

You know this, but...there are those who believe that explicitly crying - an unambiguous display of sorrow - is indicative of fragility. Obviously, perceptions (at least in the United States of America?) have matured, but, back in the 90s, male actors in take-charge roles were less likely to let the waterworks flow; not only was this considered unacceptable for tough manly men, but it was also frowned upon for female actors playing characters that strongly rejected stereotypically feminine archetypes (the tendency to openly weep during a moment of tragedy being one of these associated traits)...those who were in similar positions of leadership as their male counterparts. Though I do not know what the producers of Star Trek: Voyager had in mind nor am I aware of Mulgrew's thought process at the time, it's not outside the realm of possibility that television industry folks living through the zeitgeist of the 90s tried to deemphasize this particular quality as they attempted to shake up what was a male-dominated field.

 

Sometimes reaction to a character depends on one's fondness/dislike for the actor in the role. In my case, I had liked Kate Mulgrew in the previous productions in which I'd seen her (yes, even the much-maligned Mrs. Columbo) and as a result responded positively to her Janeway immediately. Frankly, I never understood the online hatred directed toward the character (or Michael Burnham, for that matter), as most of the Trek fans I've met IRL at conventions embraced IDIC and weren't big on hate.

However, I will admit that I was a big Bionic Woman fan when I was younger, so when I learned years later that Lindsay Wagner was briefly considered for the role of Janeway, it did make me wonder what could have been...