When did the Janeway hatred truly start to coalesce?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by Ragitsu, Nov 17, 2021.

  1. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Does Canada have coal-burning powerplants? I thought they were more our thing.
     
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  2. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
     
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  3. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Native Americans often rely on coal
    https://www.gem.wiki/Coal_and_Native_American_tribal_lands

    Chips may be made from some of the waste.

    I think phytoremediation areas would be great sites for rectennas to receive space solar power going to the peoples of the sun:

    Gene Meyers has even spoken with them on a change-over.
    https://www.thespaceshow.com/show/14-dec-2021/broadcast-3801-gene-meyers

    Maybe this time space solar power will go through
    https://spacenews.com/foust-forward-this-time-is-different-maybe/
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
  4. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The actual allegory was probably that Nuclear Power is Bad.

    It's been a while, was there an obvious 20th century equivalence?

    I also assume that Tom gave the workers time to evacuate the power station before they shot it with a photon torpedo, at least 3 minutes, and no one died, which is ridiculous, it would take hours to evacuate thousands of people from a building the size of a shopping mall.

    People would have started dying in "winter" from the cold, and the food riots would have been fun.

    Way to go Tom.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2022
  5. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nuclear power's not too bad, long as you:
    1. Don't build the powerplant on or near a faultline.
    2. Don't store the waste on or near a faultline.
    3. Have competent maintenance workers.

    Obviously, green power is better, but there are only so many rivers we can dam, and the sun completely refuses to stay in one place for 24 hours a day.

    Regarding Tom, remember that Janeway was ready to kill him (and destroy the Delta Flyer) to stop him. Given that, I'd say Tom was lucky to get off as easy as he did.
     
  6. Summer Solstice

    Summer Solstice Commander Red Shirt

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    Quite a few places do. Germany generated about 25% of its electricity from coal in 2020, down from 45% in 2013 (source = Wikipedia).

    The Ray C. Anderson Foundation are doing some pretty interesting stuff to combat climate change in the US. Their project "The Ray" is looking at what a zero carbon highway infrastructure might look like. I mention this because they believe there are about 52k acres of empty roadside land that is suitable for solar energy development and I think it is amazing.

    According to Robert Duncan McNeill (Delta Flyers podcast), "Thirty Days" came from him pushing for an episode where Tom ends up in the brig as a result of doing something that he thought was right.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2022
  7. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    But just think: if we could harness one-percent of Sol's energy output (and that is a grossly inflated number), we would solve Earth's energy problems just like that.
     
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  8. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    If we could harness 1/10,000 of what hits Earth, we'd be about set.
    Solar energy we get: 174 PW
    Energy we use: 18 TW
    And we have a six billion-year supply of it.
     
  9. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    ^ For now, yes. But energy consumption still continuously grows AFAIK. 2% per year seems a decent average. Factoring that in (and assuming the trend continues), we'd hit that ceiling in about 4.5 centuries.

    Still a long time, but considerably less than those 6 billion years. Let's hope we have Star Trek level technology by then.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2022
  10. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    In my head Canon, it takes the power of an exploding atom bomb to transport one person a hundred meters.

    I say solar power won't cut it in the Star Trek future, but we saw a future version of the golden gate bridge a few weeks ago, or during the dominon war, one or the other, and there were solar panels on the bridge, so what the frig? HUH?
     
  11. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Maybe they're more power-efficient by the time of the Federation. And I'm pretty sure that per capita power usage will taper off long before those 174 PW are used.

    Also, they might have satellites for gathering power, which they transmit to Earth via microwave laser or something.
     
  12. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Efficency + surface area.

    Dyson Sphere.

    Self replicating mines, is a step towards self replicating solar collectors.

    I asume the solar panels on the golden gate bridge bridge didn't power up anything more complicated than a hundred medium sized flood lights. But it would take those same solar panels generations to feul the replication of one small caramel ice cream sundae.
     
  13. jackoverfull

    jackoverfull Commodore Commodore

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    the solar panels on the bridge were on discovery (both 23rd and 32th century) and Picard, on DS9 and TMP they had some kind of pneumatic train on it.

    Ignoring the inconsistency, those could still be historical and no longer in use.
     
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  14. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Or they could run specific low-consumption systems, so they don't need to install high-yield generators or connect them to the power grid. We sometimes have solar panels on school zone signs, which just need to flash a yellow warning light a couple hours a day, five days a week.
     
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  15. publiusr

    publiusr Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
  16. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Was Janeway ever given grief for being "unfaithful" to her hubby?
     
  17. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    1. She wasn't married. She and Mark were engaged.
    2. There was that thing where she and Tom... uhhh... look, why don't we just say that was a bad dream from Tom eating too much of Neelix's leola root enchiladas and be done with it?
    3. If anything happened between her and Chakotay on New Earth, that might have been considered cheating. However, in her defense they were unable to leave the planet, Voyager wasn't coming back (she thought), and the only ship they had was 700 years from Earth.
    4. Anything after "Hunters", early in the 4th season... well, Mark had sent her a Dear John letter. "Sorry, thought you were dead. Moved on, got married. Regards, M." So any romances she had, no cheating.
     
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  18. Ragitsu

    Ragitsu Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    We are talking the 90s here; I would not be surprised in the slightest if people (i.e., men) slagged her for a non-issue.
     
  19. Farscape One

    Farscape One Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Actually, fiance. But except for the implied sex in "RESOLUTIONS", she was faithful. Once word arrived that Mark grieved, moved on, then got married in "HUNTERS", it was fair game for Janeway.

    That's actually one thing no one can really call her out on.


    I see Oddish already answered for me in pretty much the same way.
     
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  20. at Quark's

    at Quark's Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Nor could I really fault Mark for it. For all he knew, Janeway was most likely dead, and even if he had known, should he have put his life into waiting mode indefinitely, until she returned one day?