When did the Janeway hatred truly start to coalesce?
- Thread starter Ragitsu
- Start date
I've been watching through Voyager in order recently and I just got to Hope and Fear, where a security team utterly fails to stop Arturis activating his trap and robbing them of a ship that could get them home. At this point my theory is security just doesn't want to go home and is secretly aiding the villains.
Starfleet security teams always seem to be really bad. I know it's frequently necessary for the plot but still...
Yes, the plot requires them to fail on many instances, but in some instances it makes our heroes look worse than in others.
One example I always found really jarring is from TNG: Rascals when a renegade Ferengi crew manages to overpower the (supposedly) finest crew in Starfleet.
One example I always found really jarring is from TNG: Rascals when a renegade Ferengi crew manages to overpower the (supposedly) finest crew in Starfleet.
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I do not understand Starfleet security at all. Repeatedly it is show to be a failure, and the main characters (regardless of rank or billet) are able to step up and win the day. Look at Janeway grabbing a bat'leth against the Borg in "Unimatrix Zero" or as @at Quark's notes, Rascals, where a ship full of Starfleet officers is taken down by two birds of prey helmed by Ferengi.
Anyone expecting help from Starfleet Security is grossly misinformed.
Anyone expecting help from Starfleet Security is grossly misinformed.
They were very helpful in TSFS.
Starfleet security be like:
Red Alert! Emergency! Security to Engineering!
*Worf casually strolling towards engineering*
Red Alert! Emergency! Security to Engineering!
*Worf casually strolling towards engineering*
kira and janeway are two different persons with two different cultures and two different command styles, they are also sensitive to different things. I really don’t see the problem.
At least, the Prophets had enough sense to not install waiting room muzak and a cheery voice saying 'the Prophets will be with you momentarily! Just a moment of your patience, please' every 90 seconds or so. Imagine 50-100 years of that, Benjamin would have begged Jake to find quicker ways to terminate that timeline already.
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I don't think that's where Ben was, though. He had zero sense of time when he was displaced. When he and Jake were together, time passed normally.
Or terminated it himself. I can just imagine Sisko emerging from that place crazy as a rat in a tin outhouse and immediately strangling Jake. Which I guess would have worked as well as Jake poisoning himself.
Or terminated it himself. I can just imagine Sisko emerging from that place crazy as a rat in a tin outhouse and immediately strangling Jake. Which I guess would have worked as well as Jake poisoning himself.
While I, too, don't think he was really in the same place / condition, I also have no indication that Sisko had any sense of time passing when he was in the Prophet's limbo.
Why the heck would the Maquis want to go home to a Federation jail?
It's likely they want to get close to home, but jump ship before some shows up with handcudffs and directions to the brig.
Alternately, you want to lock these people up, before they get back to the DQ and use all the weird alien tech they found in the DQ to annihilate Cardassia Prime as retaliation for those spoonheads cleaning out the Badlands.
Well, she did, in Hope and Fear. Or do you mean, from the home front? (i.e. in the form of criticism from Starfleet after she returned home).
Apologies for the ambiguity: I meant within the Star Trek fan base.
^Well, it was a difficult situation. The 8472 seemed even worse than the Borg, the greater danger at the time. Not just for Voyager, but for the galaxy as a whole. What else could she have done? Allying with neither, go in, and hope for the best, and then end up either assimilated or destroyed or both? Retract, try to find a safe planet, only to be confronted by the winner of the conflict later on, which probably would be species 8472?
Yes, Arturis' criticism ('you couldn't see past the bulkheads of your ship!') was perhaps valid, but any solution that would have saved the ship and Janeway's moral integrity most likely would have been a writer's deus ex machina solution, not a credible one.
8472 later turned out to be a species that perhaps could be reasoned with, but that's a later retcon. It certainly didn't seem so at the time.
So, this is one decision I can't really fault Janeway for, even though I understand it's controversial.
Yes, Arturis' criticism ('you couldn't see past the bulkheads of your ship!') was perhaps valid, but any solution that would have saved the ship and Janeway's moral integrity most likely would have been a writer's deus ex machina solution, not a credible one.
8472 later turned out to be a species that perhaps could be reasoned with, but that's a later retcon. It certainly didn't seem so at the time.
So, this is one decision I can't really fault Janeway for, even though I understand it's controversial.
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