What's Special About DS9?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Spot's Meow, May 17, 2019.

  1. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    I was thinking of something more general that could include other similar episodes. Like the O'brien's virtual prison for example. I mean in both cases it's a type of delusion.
     
  2. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    True, as much as you could argue that in DS9, an entire species placed outside of time was baked into the premise, allowing them to tell time-travel-kind of stories/ introduce such paradoxes without actually time traveling.


    So the underlying comment is ultimately not so much as to the amount of time travel, but more, eurm, the originality of the stories (there may be a better word which I can't find right now). I can understand that, though it might be a bit hard to quantify.

    I myself probably would look more to what the main (plot) point of an episode is. In Accession for example, the time travel is merely an writing convenience to tell the main story, which is how a competitor for the role of Emissary confronts "the Sisko" with what he really thinks himself about his role, so in that respect, I might not count it as a "real" time travel story even though it contains time travel. Same for Captain's Holiday for example, where the fact that the Tox Uthat comes from the future is merely an peripheral excuse for setting up a story about an extremely important item that some crooks want to get their hands on during what is supposed to be Picard's holiday. Contrasted to Past Tense for example, where the entire point of the story is not to screw up the timeline, so I would count that one as a time travel story.

    I think "the lives of Dax" is apt, since (in my eyes) it really is about discovering how Joran Dax "fits" into Ezri. If you need a category broader than that and not specific to Dax, perhaps you could call it a "coming to terms with one's past" type of episode, even though the "surface form" of it is a detective/thriller.
     
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  3. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    The time-travel aspects of Accession are downright insane. I mean in the end the past had been changed but Kira could remember both timelines... Unless one postulates that Kira is a special case (and why would she be?), you'd have billions of people remembering having lived two different lives. I mean how many people do you remember as having died say in 1980 and in 2000 at the same time? This is just bullshit. We shouldn't call that sci. Fi. but moralistic fairytale crap.
     
  4. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Sorry, but it was established in the pilot, and is no more a conceit than faster than light travel or matter-energy transfer.
     
  5. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    I don't quite follow you there. What exactly has been established in the pilot that is related to my post?
     
  6. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    That the prophets exist outside linear time.
     
  7. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    How does that relate to Kira remembering two different timelines?
     
  8. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Because the Prophets have access to time such that two seemingly anachronistic details can be true.
     
  9. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    The Prophets may live outside of time but it's another kettle of fish to say that absolutely EVERYONE lives outside of time. They're not that powerful.
     
  10. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Why is that more of a conceit than any other?
     
  11. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    Well, think about it. How would it be like if you remembered say Kennedy dying in 1964 and the same man dying an old man in 2010? Wouldn't you find that disturbing? I mean you could end up in therapy for that. Now imagine the craziness if EVERYONE remembered those two events simultaneously!
     
  12. Bad Thoughts

    Bad Thoughts Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I can't imagine gaining infinite weight by going the speed of light, yet it's true. More directly, quantum mechanics suggests particles can exist in two placed at once, and a recent paper suggests that significant gravitational events can push particles out of time with one another.

    In the end, you either willfully accept or reject these conceits in science fiction.
     
  13. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    Yes, it's called the EPR (Einstein, Podolsky, Rozen) bridge. But particles are not historical events.
     
  14. Farscape One

    Farscape One Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    But the only thing that was changed was Akorem finishing that poem. Comparing that to your example of Kennedy dying at a later time and remembering both is really stretching things.
     
  15. at Quark's

    at Quark's Commodore Commodore

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    It's the only thing mentioned. For all we know next time Kira opens a history book, Bajoran history till the occupation turned out drastically different from what she knew....
     
  16. Prax

    Prax Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I think everyone remembered the other emissary's visit. Maybe they should have made it so only Sisko knew, otherwise there has to be a growing conspiracy theory on Bajor that Captain Sisko is taking all their major religious figures and dumping their bodies into cold space at the other end of the wormhole.
     
  17. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    How about the priest that had been assassinated thanks to Akorem's stupid rules? Was he brought back to life too?

    Akorem: From now on, we'll no longer choose our professions according to our gifts and strong points but to our caste!!

    Stupid incompetent Bajorans: Yeah!!!

    Intelligent competent Bajorans: What???

    I mean, if Sisko had just dumped this guy anywhere, he would have had some extenuating circumstances.
     
  18. kkt

    kkt Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    In my timeline, JFK was killed in 1963. At least that's what I remember.
     
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  19. Discofan

    Discofan Admiral Admiral

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    Sure, whatever blows your skirt up, Marilyn.
     
  20. Savage Dragon

    Savage Dragon Your Savage Overlord Moderator

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    I'm not really sure what you were trying to accomplish here, but these kind of comments have a tendency to rub people the wrong way. Let's try and stay focused on the the actual discussion at hand. Thanks.
     
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