What's Left to watch?

[timothy]

looks like a promiseing year. I'll miss smallville looking forward to fallen skies.don't have HBO but I have trueblood season 1 & 2 picking up season 3 at the end of the month.
have to wait till next year for game of thrones.

erica durrance is such a hottie I hope she gets something new soon.

 

[Stone_Cold_Sisko]

Game of Thrones on HBO. It is Fantasy though, not Sci-Fi, it's unclear if this topic is really JUST about sci-fi or about Sci-fi, Fantasy, Supernatural Horror, combined (occasionally referred to simply as "genre shows").

Also, True Blood on HBO is pretty good.

 

[Greg Cox]

erica durrance is such a hottie I hope she gets something new soon.

Why not add her to DESPERATE HOUSEWIVES--as Teri Hatcher's long-lost daughter?

 

[Jax]

I'm perfectly aware that there are many fans of Dr. Who and knew I'd probably get people complaining that I dare call it crap but that's the way I feel. I sampled it when Rose and the guy from Heroes was in it and watched about a full season of it before I bailed on it. It was just too silly and childish. I don't have a problem with sci-fi meant for the whole family to watch--TNG is one of my all time favorite shows but TNG took itself seriously and didn't feel like Sesame Street.

Well as a fan of Doctor Who the 1st season is the weakest and its better after that. Saying that you could always watch it from when Steven Moffatt took over (2010 season 5) because the show has a soft re-tooling allowing new fans to join and its a little more darker than the RTD era.

Doctor Who though is always going to be a little campy and silly because thats what makes Brits love it, the show querky nature is very charming. Serious shows are great but too many of them can make TV feel like a drag IMO and depressing.

 

[Greg Cox]

Doctor Who though is always going to be a little campy and silly because thats what makes Brits love it, the show querky nature is very charming. Serious shows are great but too many of them can make TV feel like a drag IMO and depressing.

Exactly. Who says sf has to be serious all the time? Wit and whimsey have their place, too.

It's funny. I was talking up Warehouse 13 to a neighbor who is a huge Trek fan. After a few minutes, he looked at me dubiously and asked, "Is this a British show?"

It's not, of course, but I found it interesting that he associated lighthearted, humorous scifi with the Brits--and apparently thought that American scifi was more serious!

 

[startrekwatcher]

Yes Brits do have a quirky sense of humor that I just don't get. I might sample it--there's an episode on BBC America tonite--but I just don't think fundamentally the tone is something that appeals to my personal taste.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Humor in sci fi is great, but I prefer it biting and not silly (or at least not just silly). DS9, Farscape and Firefly had plenty of it, and that's a big reason those are some of my favorite shows. Futurama is nothing but comedy. If there was a sci fi show out there like that nowadays (other than Futurama, of course, which is still running - gah, that makes 24!!!) - I'd watch it in a heartbeat.

For non-space opera, I could say the same of Dexter and Lost. Dexter's humor can be downright savage - love it! And then there's the excellent Archer, whose humor is not for the squeamish or easily offended. That's what I like: go for the jugular every time. A show with my kind of humor isn't a show that any child should be watching.

 

[Greg Cox]

Can't disagree where Dexter is concerned. For a show about murder and mutilation, it's often darkly hilarious.

Dexter's wry, voiceover narration actually reminds me of one of my favorite black comedies: Kind Hearts and Coronets. The contrast between who he is pretending to be and who he really is is what makes it so funny . . . in both cases.

So when does Season Five come out on DVD again?

 

[Technobuilder]

Being Human UK was excellent!

Best show I'd seen in (seems like) forever till I was talked into checking out Being Erica.

 

[Harvey]

Can't disagree where Dexter is concerned. For a show about murder and mutilation, it's often darkly hilarious.

Dexter's wry, voiceover narration actually reminds me of one of my favorite black comedies: Kind Hearts and Coronets. The contrast between who he is pretending to be and who he really is is what makes it so funny . . . in both cases.

So when does Season Five come out on DVD again?

Late summer or early fall, to coincide with season six.

But I didn't care for season five at all.

 

[Jax]

Dexter is no doubt one of the best shows ever on cable, the dark humor and voice over stuff is brilliant + Michael C Hall is nothing short of superb with an excellent supporting cast. However season 5 did begin to show cracks but still better than most other TV.

Another thing about Doctor Who, it has the tough task of being a Sci Fi show for the family and non sci fi viewers crowd, something hard for a sci fi show to pull off so it compensates hard eggy sci fi with its querky charm...Its worked pretty well for the most part since 1963 I guess or it wouldn't still be around.

 

[Ensign_Redshirt]

Given the fact that Fringe is the only genre show left that I'm still watching regularly, I'm actually considering giving Doctor Who another try again.

I guess I'm also one of those who thought that Series 1 (and also Series 2 to some extent) was pretty dumb. I originally stopped watching after Series 2 anyway. However, I happened to check out some of the more critically acclaimed episodes of the latter serieses (among them Human Nature/The Family of Blood, Blink, and Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead) recently. And I liked them very much.

Hence I started to reconsider now.

 

[DevilEyes]

Oh yeah and Poe, which may not have had genre elements but done correctly certainly should have. Maybe someone else will pick up the bare idea and do it right this time.

According to script reviews I've read, Poe had supernatural elements.

That's the right idea! Now if only they had remembered that Poe can't plausibly be some Hollywood hotty and you need to cast some guy like Michael Emerson in the role, and the elements of alcoholism and melancholia from his life cannot be deleted and still have a personally recognizable as the historical figure, and they might have had a show worth rooting for.

Jeffrey Combs played Poe on stage, and he looked the part perfectly. Check out the photos: http://www.jeffreycombs.com/poepage.php

Dr Who doesn't feel like Sesame Street, and it feels less silly and childish than TNG often did exactly because Dr Who has a sense of humor, wit and self-irony

Well we'll agree to disagree because I don't find DW clever, funny or witty. The aliens are stupid--a farting pig alien trying to infiltrate British government and take over the world for instance, the Daleks are dumb etc. The Doctor is an over-the-top clown I can't take seriously. And I simply don't think the writing is nearly as strong as TNG.

The Slithean were silly, but it's not like Trek didn't have its share of silly aliens... Speaking of TNG, a while ago I started a poll thread about Stupid aliens just in season 1 of TNG, because this was one of the main things that struck me about the season - just how stupid almost all the aliens are, and I don't mean just in the sense of 'silly in concept/execution', I mean in-universe stupid beyond belief, the TNG crew constantly treats them as little children, and they're shown to have good reasons to. And don't get me started on VOY and the Kazon, the Talaxians...

The Dalek might perhaps be a somewhat silly visual if you see them out of context, but their concept is not silly at all (IMO) and they work in the story, especially with the Doctor's history with them. Just sticking to S1, I thought "Dalek" was one of the best episodes.

Buffy started with some camp elements but just enough wit and irony to be a smart show, and then it showed that it actually was a very serious drama, and about 10 times more complex and deeper than TNG was.

Again I disagree. Buffy's adversaries were corny. I didn't care for most of the cast and the show was uneven. Like I said I realize both DW and Buffy have their zealous fans who love love love those shows which is why I sampled them due to all the praise--but I couldn't see what they saw in them so I stopped watching.

It was less uneven than The X-Files or any of the Trek shows. There are a few cheesy episodes in S1 and S2 and then later usually one or two per season (with S3 and S5 being most consistent), which is quite consistent for a SF/F show. And I rarely felt that an episode was really awful in the way that the worst of TNG, TOS and DS9 were. I love DS9, but some of the Ferengi and MU episodes were just atrocious.

Which adversaries do you think were corny? Do you mean nameless canon fodder vampires and other episodic villains like the demon bikers in the season 6 opener? Or do you mean the Master, Angelus, S2 Spike, Drusilla, the Mayor, S3 Faith, Glory, Warren, Dark Willow, the First, and Caleb? The only Big Bad I'd call corny is Adam. And the Gentlemen from "Hush" were genuinely scary.

When you say you didn't care for most of the cast, do you mean that you didn't like the characters, or that you didn't think they were good actors? If the former, it's a matter of taste, not seriousness/quality of the show; for the latter, I think that most of the cast did a great job - except for David Boreanaz early on (he got much better in S3 and on AtS), maybe Nick Brendon wobbled occasionally in early seasons, and Charisma Carpenter was never a very good actress but it didn't show that much on Buffy because it played to her strengths (comic relief, snarky bitchiness) and she didn't get many grand dramatic moments like she did on Angel (drama is something she can't act well). But I think Sarah Michelle Gellar, Anthony Stewart Head, James Marsters and Alyson Hannigan were great throughout.

 

[Greg Cox]

Given the fact that Fringe is the only genre show left that I'm still watching regularly, I'm actually considering giving Doctor Who another try again.

I guess I'm also one of those who thought that Series 1 (and also Series 2 to some extent) was pretty dumb. I originally stopped watching after Series 2 anyway. However, I happened to check out some of the more critically acclaimed episodes of the latter serieses (among them Human Nature/The Family of Blood, Blink, and Silence in the Library/Forest of the Dead) recently. And I liked them very much.

Hence I started to reconsider now.

I would put "Blink" or "The Girl in the Fireplace" up against any STAR TREK or BSG ep ever made. They're that good.

 

[MacLeod]

Didn't "Blink" and "Girl In The Fireplace" win a HUGO award?

 

[startrekwatcher]

The Slithean were silly, but it's not like Trek didn't have its share of silly aliens... Speaking of TNG, a while ago I started a poll thread about Stupid aliens just in season 1 of TNG, because this was one of the main things that struck me about the season - just how stupid almost all the aliens are, and I don't mean just in the sense of 'silly in concept/execution', I mean in-universe stupid beyond belief, the TNG crew constantly treats them as little children, and they're shown to have good reasons to. And don't get me started on VOY and the Kazon, the Talaxians...

Again we are going to have to agree to disagree. YOu obviously feel that way but I don't. Even the most grating ridiculous dumb aliens from Trek like the Kazon, Ferengi, Pakleds weren't portrayed in the kind of silly camp over-the-top way that DW portrays some of their adversaries.

The show simply doesn't appeal to me--the tone, the humor, the way they resolve their stories. I don't laugh with the Doctor I roll my eyes and laugh at him. It may be I just don't get British humor but I just don't like its approach. SFF has a hard enough time being taken seriously so I hate it when they are campy jokes like Hercules, Xena, DW. My personal preference is for sff to be serious--that is why I enjoyed post TOS Trek so much--it had a gravitas and conviction about it.

By the way I did watch last night on BBC America last week's(the pirate/siren episode and this week's episode "Dr Who's Bride" of Dr Who and yeah I still don't like it. It just isn't my thing.

The Dalek might perhaps be a somewhat silly visual if you see them out of context, but their concept is not silly at all (IMO) and they work in the story, especially with the Doctor's history with them. Just sticking to S1, I thought "Dalek" was one of the best episodes.

I know they are sort of a Borg analog in the DW universe and am aware of what they are and what they've done. I did see them in action but they did nothing for me. And the problem with the lighter campier tone of DW is that when it reaches for those more poignant moments I just can't take it seriously because so much silliness is all around.

It[Buffy] was less uneven than The X-Files or any of the Trek shows. There are a few cheesy episodes in S1 and S2 and then later usually one or two per season (with S3 and S5 being most consistent), which is quite consistent for a SF/F show. And I rarely felt that an episode was really awful in the way that the worst of TNG, TOS and DS9 were. I love DS9, but some of the Ferengi and MU episodes were just atrocious.

It is simple. I just didn't like the show. It is that fundamental. As a viewer there is a chemistry that just happens or it doesn't--you can't force it. It is either there or it isn't due to a wide variety of factors--actors, characters, writing, storylines, tone, subject matter--that either click with you or doesn't. If I didn't care for the characters or the show itself how uneven or consistent it may or may not have been really doesn't matter. I'm sure there are plenty of consistent series out there that has decent writing but I simply don't care for the premise, the actors, the characters or the subject matter i.e. The Sopranos. Buffy, Angel, Hercules, Xena, Dr Who, Torchwood, Haven, Eureka, SG1, SGA, SGU, Caprica were just not for me in much the way you don't care for TNG.

The X-Files for me worked--I like Duchovny and Anderson, I liked the premise, I liked the serious tone, the mythology arc earky on, the standalones were well written. That's my kind of show. Big fan of it.

Like I said I just didn't like how silly some of the Buffy adversaries were and how they'd spout corny dialog or jokes. I didn't care for the silliness such as the principal or was it the mayor being a big monster. I realized Whedon was trying to tell stories about coming of age using vampires and other monsters to explore the human condition--I just didn't like the way he did it. I'm just not a big fan of Whedon or his style.

I caught a few episodes later on when it moved to UPN/CW and thought it was atrocious. It is possible this was towards the end of the show and like most shows jumped the shark.

When you say you didn't care for most of the cast, do you mean that you didn't like the characters, or that you didn't think they were good actors?

I didn't care for the characters.

 

[DevilEyes]

It is simple. I just didn't like the show. It is that fundamental. As a viewer there is a chemistry that just happens or it doesn't--you can't force it. It is either there or it isn't due to a wide variety of factors--actors, characters, writing, storylines, tone, subject matter--that either click with you or doesn't. If I didn't care for the characters or the show itself how uneven or consistent it may or may not have been really doesn't matter. I'm sure there are plenty of consistent series out there that has decent writing but I simply don't care for the premise, the actors, the characters or the subject matter i.e. The Sopranos. Buffy, Angel, Hercules, Xena, Dr Who, Torchwood, Haven, Eureka, SG1, SGA, SGU, Caprica were just not for me in much the way you don't care for TNG.

I do really like TNG at its best - e.g. The Measure of A Man, The Best of Both Worlds, The Defector, RDM's Klingon episodes, The Wounded, The Chain of Command, The Inner Light, Tapestry... I just think it's overrated on the whole.

The X-Files I really loved, but it could be really uneven, it botched the mythology badly because CC never planned how to resolve the mystery, and season 7 was one of the worst SF/F seasons I've ever seen.

I caught a few episodes later on when it moved to UPN/CW and thought it was atrocious. It is possible this was towards the end of the show and like most shows jumped the shark.

That's where the Buffy fandom is split, some only like the high school seasons, some hate the last 2 years, while others love the show all the way through, and some prefer the late seasons. If you ask a bunch of different people, you'd get a bunch of different answers, and one person's best season is another one's worst.

(And then there's a smaller number of people who have stuck with Buffy even with the comics continuation with the show, and an even smaller number of those who liked season 8 comics. But that's another story...)

 

[Technobuilder]

I myself am a fan of genre that takes itself seriously within the context of it's own rules. Anytime a show breaks it's own rules, I get annoyed.

I'm a fan of many of the series you've both been talking about and many different other series for many different reasons.

Buffy & Angel could run the gamut from silly, odd, & werid, to dark, brooding, & horrific.

Emotionally the characters were put through the ringer so very many times over the years, that it was the humor that got them through most of it. They became a family of sorts and that of course came with it's own drama, because even when you pick your family, there will always be some drama that comes along with it. That's the way families are.

TNG vacillated almost as much from lighthearted & goofy moments, to those of deep haunting traumas and serious issues of morality and judgement.

-What is a man?
-Do we have the right to interfere?
-Why did we let 4yr old's hyjack our chief engineer who beamed over without a security escort?

Doctor Who is probably one of the craziest and sanest shows in genre television right now, but it's also one of the darkest and most serious.

Again, the whimsy of Doctor Who is almost a necessary contrast to the depths of darkness it deals with over the course of an average series, with a monster of the week, or most terrifyingly when confronted in The Doctor himself.

Fair Play to anyone who feels they've tried the other shoe to their satisfaction and decided it still doesn't fit, but just remember no one is trying to sell anyone magic beans here.

People like these shows for a reason, and FOR ME, it's always been because I get a little of everything.

Full disclosure: It also probably helps that I'm more concerned with character over plot and how the characters respond to the plot elements they're confronted with.

Again it's about context and internal consistency.

If Big Bird suddenly was on the Bridge of the Enterprise teaching ABC's to Picard, I'd be pissed off, but if instead you call it an alien avian trying to communicate in an effort to better understand each other... I'm ready to see where it goes.

Edit:
startrekwatcher - would you mind listing some of your favorite shows just so I can get an idea of the kinds of stuff you like the best? You listed what you don't like, but I'm just curious to see what you do enjoy. Thanks.

 

[Jax]

^^ Buffy's best is season 3, that year is just awesome but I never understood the hate for the final 2 years but I guess it became a more adult Angel esq show due to the darker nature of the 6th/7th seasons. The 7th season no doubt has plot issues which Whedon even admitted but said he didn't care because he wanted to go just out with a big story despite plot holes and whats bigger than a slayer army vs. an Ancient vampire army lead by the First Evil

 

[Out Of My Vulcan Mind]

startrekwatcher - would you mind listing some of your favorite shows just so I can get an idea of the kinds of stuff you like the best? You listed what you don't like, but I'm just curious to see what you do enjoy. Thanks.

He's listed some of them elsewhere: TNG, Tru Calling, Point Pleasant, The Vampire Diaries, Gossip Girl, original Melrose Place, Dallas, Hill Street Blues, some of Lost, early Heroes, The X-Files. I think I have those right. I can be corrected if I'm wrong.