Either he assembled a new one or one of his friends grabbed it for him.
What would Seven have made of Chakotay's religion?
- Thread starter Guy Gardener
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Either he assembled a new one or one of his friends grabbed it for him.
A replicated wing? Tsk tsk...
He also had it with him in "Initiations"--and one wonders how he got it off the exploded shuttle, since he didn't seem to be carrying it around with him on that planet with Kar.
One also wonders why a character posited as a vegetarian for spiritual reasons (which is so *not* Native American) would have an animal skin as the bundle...
Ah well, I suppose it's consistent in Jeri Taylor's Tribe Hollywood.
Maybe he grabbed it for himself before he crashed the ship... Might have put it in his pocket!
In "The Omega Directive," Seven asks Chakotay what he would do if he had a chance to see his Great Spirit--and he doesn't take exception with her use of the term. While I realize that Chakotay's NA spirituality is confusing, at best, he says that he'd grab at the chance to do so. I know it's wrong to generalize about NA beliefs, but, to me, he seems to accept, here, that a Great Spirit does exist--and all that that entails--creation, afterlife, etc.
In "The Omega Directive," Seven asks Chakotay what he would do if he had a chance to see his Great Spirit--and he doesn't take exception with her use of the term. While I realize that Chakotay's NA spirituality is confusing, at best, he says that he'd grab at the chance to do so. I know it's wrong to generalize about NA beliefs, but, to me, he seems to accept, here, that a Great Spirit does exist--and all that that entails--creation, afterlife, etc.
Great Spirit does not necessarily connote a creator god.
In "The Omega Directive," Seven asks Chakotay what he would do if he had a chance to see his Great Spirit--and he doesn't take exception with her use of the term. While I realize that Chakotay's NA spirituality is confusing, at best, he says that he'd grab at the chance to do so. I know it's wrong to generalize about NA beliefs, but, to me, he seems to accept, here, that a Great Spirit does exist--and all that that entails--creation, afterlife, etc.
Great Spirit does not necessarily connote a creator god.
I guess, in that case, there really isn't much in common between Seven's "perfection" and Chakotay's.
In "The Omega Directive," Seven asks Chakotay what he would do if he had a chance to see his Great Spirit--and he doesn't take exception with her use of the term. While I realize that Chakotay's NA spirituality is confusing, at best, he says that he'd grab at the chance to do so. I know it's wrong to generalize about NA beliefs, but, to me, he seems to accept, here, that a Great Spirit does exist--and all that that entails--creation, afterlife, etc.
Great Spirit does not necessarily connote a creator god.
I guess, in that case, there really isn't much in common between Seven's "perfection" and Chakotay's.
Seven's Omega doesn't denote a creator god either.
An immanent divinity exists within nature--it's a metaphorical representation of the spark of primal energy that remains within all.
It's a tough concept for those from a Judeo-Christian background to wrap their heads around, but a lot of spiritual traditions don't really care how What Went Bang (so to speak) came into existance. The Hopi refer to Grandmother Spider, the Iroquois to Corn Woman and the Turtle, but they aren't God and how they got there to do their part in forming the universe isn't said--and is considered irrelevant.
Just like a lot of religious traditions don't really care much about what happens after this life--the Celts being one example.
IDIC exists in human traditions, too...
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But science, which is really Seven's "religion," if she has one, doesn't have much in common with the mystical spirituality (whatever its source) of Chakotay's spirit guide and vision quest--especially not at this stage of her development (season four).
One of the things I liked about "Sacred Ground" was Janeway's leap of faith when she took Kes back into the energy field, without any reassurance of whether it would work or not from her scientific roots. To me, that is a real connection to Chakotay's willingness to accept that he doesn't know, and can't know, everything.
I especially liked the exchange between Janeway and Chakotay when they were discussing the possible "cure":
CHAKOTAY: Of course there's always the possibility that the ancestral spirits really do control what happens in the shrine.
JANEWAY: To each his own, Commander, but I imagine if we scratch deep enough we'd find a scientific basis for most religious doctrines.
CHAKOTAY: I remember when my mother taught me the science underlying the vision quest. In a way I felt disappointed. Some of the mystery was gone. Maybe the Nechani have chosen not to lose the mystery.
I like that he said, "Some of the mystery was gone." To me, that implies that some of the mystery remains--within each seeker.
Seven's mystery, on the other hand, is totally external and something she thinks she can know. There isn't much to be learned about the omega molecule from introspection, whether it is enhanced by an akoonah or not.
And, sure, IDIC works for me just about anywhere, especially since most religions are constructed to help humans understand the mysteries that surround them.
One of the things I liked about "Sacred Ground" was Janeway's leap of faith when she took Kes back into the energy field, without any reassurance of whether it would work or not from her scientific roots. To me, that is a real connection to Chakotay's willingness to accept that he doesn't know, and can't know, everything.
I especially liked the exchange between Janeway and Chakotay when they were discussing the possible "cure":
CHAKOTAY: Of course there's always the possibility that the ancestral spirits really do control what happens in the shrine.
JANEWAY: To each his own, Commander, but I imagine if we scratch deep enough we'd find a scientific basis for most religious doctrines.
CHAKOTAY: I remember when my mother taught me the science underlying the vision quest. In a way I felt disappointed. Some of the mystery was gone. Maybe the Nechani have chosen not to lose the mystery.
I like that he said, "Some of the mystery was gone." To me, that implies that some of the mystery remains--within each seeker.
Seven's mystery, on the other hand, is totally external and something she thinks she can know. There isn't much to be learned about the omega molecule from introspection, whether it is enhanced by an akoonah or not.
And, sure, IDIC works for me just about anywhere, especially since most religions are constructed to help humans understand the mysteries that surround them.
I think that Seven made it clear at the end of Omega when talking to Janeway that she was aware that the mystery of existence was deeper than she'd thought.
Omega is a metaphor, not the be-all and end-all.
And honestly? I think both Janeway and Chakotay are bigger skeptics than you're positing here. But, then, I never found Chakotay's Instant Mystic conversion--as written by Jeri Taylor in Pathways--believable. He wants nothing to do with his people's traditions until his homeworld is attacked and his family destroyed, then he becomes a born-again Indian and immediately is not only a wise mystic, but able to teach.
It doesn't work that way. I think Chakotay's in for a spiritual crisis.
I think Chakotay's in for a spiritual crisis.
From the way he was behaving in "Endgame" it looked like he was already in the middle of one.
I think Chakotay's in for a spiritual crisis.
From the way he was behaving in "Endgame" it looked like he was already in the middle of one.
Actually, looked like he was finally coming to his senses to me.
What healthy man would spend 7 years pining over a woman who refuses to be involved with him?
I think Chakotay's in for a spiritual crisis.
From the way he was behaving in "Endgame" it looked like he was already in the middle of one.
Actually, looked like he was finally coming to his senses to me.
What healthy man would spend 7 years pining over a woman who refuses to be involved with him?
He wasn't exactly pining - he had passing affairs with other blondes. You can have feelings for someone and yet have casual sex with someone else - especially in the Trek universe where sexuality is no big deal.
Accepting the advances of an emotional adolescent with a crush though is crossing a line...
From the way he was behaving in "Endgame" it looked like he was already in the middle of one.
Actually, looked like he was finally coming to his senses to me.
What healthy man would spend 7 years pining over a woman who refuses to be involved with him?
He wasn't exactly pining - he had passing affairs with other blondes. You can have feelings for someone and yet have casual sex with someone else - especially in the Trek universe where sexuality is no big deal.
Accepting the advances of an emotional adolescent with a crush though is crossing a line...
I don't believe Seven is an emotional adolescent.
Well I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on that one!
Did you see those episodes of Arrested Development with Charlize Theron? No one realized that she was intellectually handicapped because she was very very attractive and spoke with an English accent.
Seven is a child.
There's something the size of a lightbulb plugged into her brain which stops her from thinking too much like an adult because the Borg think thinking is unthinkable.
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