What was your impression of Season 2 overall?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Discovery' started by Lord Garth, May 20, 2019.

  1. marlboro

    marlboro Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Season 3 plot twist: SJGardner turns out to be yet another previously unmentioned Spock family member.
     
  2. Discofan

    Discofan Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    You mean like Spock's parents that Kirk didn't know who they were before Spock was practically forced to tell him or Sybok that Spock only told Kirk was his brother after he refused an order to shoot him? Yet Spock did tell Pike about his sister... Well, he's definitely changed in that regard.
     
  3. Noname Given

    Noname Given Admiral Admiral

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    ^^^
    IDK - It appears Pike did also have a relatioship with Sarek (Kirk didn't even know Sarek was Spock's father until TOS S2 - "Journey To Babel", plus if Spock was younger and 'embracing' his Human side more at that point, Pike knowing more 'intimate' details from Spock would be more likely.

    Once Spock was under Kirk, he was trying to be 'more Vulcanian', probably meaning that unless there was a logical reason to impart some information, Spock wouldn't.
     
  4. Jadeb

    Jadeb Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Is there any reason to believe Spock had known Kirk for more than a year or two before Journey to Babel? I’ve never understood why that’s supposed to be so significant in these arguments.
     
    Last edited: Aug 13, 2019
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  5. Midquest

    Midquest Commander Red Shirt

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    First of all, I love, love, love Michael. As far as I'm concerned, she's one of the most nuanced characters Trek has ever given us.

    I've said this elsewhere, but in Michael we have this character who has been emotionally repressed. That's been fine until she had to face a really emotionally difficulty situation. She doesn't handle it well, gets in trouble, and subsequently meets a bunch of new people. Her journey in S1 is all about becoming human through her shipmates. Michael learns about friendship with Tilly, dating with Stamets, love with Ash, deception with Lorca, and jealously with Saru. She voyages to another universe and even begins to see humanity in an alien species she previously saw as inhuman, and finally she is able to recognize her own bigotry. That's a spectacular arc. And then, in S2, Michael has to grapple with the fact that she's got these new emotions and that she's now built her humanity around being a mentor and leader who saves everybody else. S2 puts Michael in the position of making the absolute sacrifice, being almost god-like--and then it undercuts her by saying, "Nope, sorry, you don't get to do this alone. Everybody is going to sacrifice for you."

    I love it, and I love some of the incredibly subtle stuff SMG does in her performance. SMG herself says that the idea in S2 was that Michael swung too far into her own emotions, and I think it makes total sense with her character's journey.

    But.

    All of that aside, I can't help but look back over the course of Star Trek and think that Discovery's emotional humanity is possibly the first example of the franchise getting human beings in space right. I mean, Starfleet is basically disciplined academics in space. Yes, Starfleet officers are trained to do their jobs, but they aren't put through some kind of extreme, dehumanizing military training. They're trained to be kind, sensitive, curious, generous people. So I love that when the stakes are low, people on Discovery start hanging out at each other's stations. I love that people challenge Pike and he's cool with it. Or that people cry a lot. If you took all the pressures of your life and work and made it so that they were inseparable because you're on a space boat that gets attacked by space monsters on a weekly basis, wouldn't you cry sometimes? That's human.

    I don't want the future be a place of rigid hierarchy, stoicism, and emotional repression a la TNG. And I'm a huge TNG fan. I want to imagine that a better humanity will have healthier workplaces where people can have a bad day and be supported by their coworkers, where they can raise counterpoints with the captain, where they can gossip and hang out at work. In 2019, that seems like an image of society that is humane, reasonable, and mature. Sure, the older shows emphasized military structure and emotional repression, but that's feeling a tad dated to me. Discovery posits that you can be a hot mess of a human being and still be a professional. I think that's refreshingly real.
     
  6. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Also, Spock spoke of having worked together with Pike for eleven years, this quite possibly meaning his first-ever Starfleet assignment after the Academy (or perhaps at the Academy already) was with Pike.* Pike's "relationship" with Sarek might thus have consistent of Dad pestering Son's CO with attempts to get Son back (while using his Vulcan diplomatic skills to avoid looking like he actually cared about Son), or attempts to get Son's career ruined, or veiled mentions of Earth's odds of getting nova-bombed increasing with every day Son continued to serve. I could see Pike being the ideal man to deal with that, in so many respects.

    Timo Saloniemi

    * We see in DSC that Spock's association with Pike had its interruptions, so stretching the 11 years all the way back to very early 2250s is easily done. But supposedly an upcoming short will settle that question, with Ensign Spock reporting in and all.
     
  7. Amasov

    Amasov Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I love, love, love this and I love TNG too. However, the problem with it (and its spin-offs) that I had was; because humanity had "evolved" beyond conflict and are depicted as being perfect, I can't relate to these characters on a personal level. What I love about Discovery's characters is how supportive they are of one another. It was small, but there was such a nice moment where Michael just entered the bridge after having a breakdown. She was walking to her station and Saru said, very concerned, "Are you alright...?" There was something about that I found very comforting and, of course, something I could relate to.

    I live with anxiety and have the occasional attack and, sadly, it comes to work with me sometimes. But, when I'm clearly distressed at work or just having a bad day, I have an extremely supportive team who can easily sense it and offer their support by doing exactly what Saru did.

    This is why modern Star Trek works for me; it's easier to relate to the characters on an emotional level.
     
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  8. Amasov

    Amasov Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    I don't know. I think I attribute that more to the writing. It's the classic type of story seen in The Jungle Book, but with a Star Trek spin. A human raised on Vulcan is a very interesting and compelling idea. It never seemed to me like it was explored too much with Michael. Sure, we got a fair amount of flashbacks with her as a child and moments with Sarek, but, what effect would that have on her? What sort of human does that make her?

    When we see her in flashbacks boarding the Shenzou for the first time, she behaves VERY Vulcan-like, but over the course of her seven years with Georgiou, she seemed to gradually become more human to the point where her Vulcan upbringing didn't seem to leave too much of a lasting impact on her.
     
  9. Jadeb

    Jadeb Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I agree with all this. I think it’s easy to see what the idea for the character was, but what’s on screen doesn’t deliver on that.
     
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  10. Discofan

    Discofan Vice Admiral Rear Admiral

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    The one character that I really don't like in that season is Spock. I mean he's conceited, bad-tempered, he spends two or three episodes "thinking" about "why he was chosen"... I mean seriously, who cares why he was chosen? And he thinks that the fate of the galaxy depends on his "thinking", in the end, he "finds" out by watching a recording of Gabrielle Burnham!!! So all his meditation has come to nothing!! He keeps mocking Micheal, apparently because she called him a name twenty years before!! Talk about holding a grudge!!! Most of the time, his contribution to sessions of brainstorming is to ponderously state the obvious. I mean great character really!:rolleyes:

    I mean:

    Spock: I... Love... Science...
    Neither... am... I.
    Michael... is... a... dumbass
    I'll... have... a... Calzone... without... Onions...
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2019 at 2:43 PM