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What was your impression of Season 2 overall?

And the season is strewn with things like that. Where the obvious solution is neither taken nor ruled out, especially the second half of the season I must say.

It really felt like - initially - they were having a great deal of fun with the second season, exploring new worlds, new concepts, and new characters - right up to the sixth episode, when Berg/Harberts were fired. But it was just shocking what was done in the back half, because they proceeded to cobble together an "arc" which somehow involved every major plot point from those earlier episodes - and even some of the Short Treks! Not only was this kinda nonsensical, but it meant that Discovery started lapsing back into the "small quadrant syndrome" which was so evident in the first season - where the entire universe seems to revolve around the Hero Ship. We didn't need New Eden, the Sphere Data, Saru's sister, Ash's son the Klingon time wizard, the Sphere Data being the key to everything, or more effin Po. The conflict versus Control could have worked just fine without trying to weave all of this back in again. Hell, it would have worked better. They'd still need to figure out the how/why of the Red Angel's visitations earlier in the season, but handwaving this and moving on was better than the double-down exposition infodump we got in The Red Angel/Perpetual Infinity.

The finale felt like - in retrospect - the plot equivalent of "controlled demolition" to me. Basically someone - whether Kurtzman or the studio - decided that everything that they had been building up in Discovery for two years was totally unworkable - other than the great cast - and they wanted to wipe the board and do something new.
 
Oh, and on the subject of what was going on with the mid-season pivot, one thing I've been turning around awhile in my head is this: What if it wasn't that Berg/Harberts arc was unworkable. What if instead the studio essentially decided they didn't want to pay them another dime, which meant tearing everything up? Basically a Nicholas Locarno situation writ large.

I'm not familiar with how writing contracts work in Hollywood. However, I know that on the first season, while the individual writers worked on individual episodes Berg and Harberts saw themselves as the "keepers of the arc." Thus I think it's fair to presume that they were the ones who sketched out the rough draft for all of Season 2 prior to filming. If the studio went ahead with their planned story ideas, would they have to be paid - even get some sort of story credit? I could see why CBS would want to avoid this, which would lead to all of their perhaps well-crafted plans (at least on the macro level) getting shredded and starting over with a clean sheet of paper.

Conversely, maybe they threatened some sort of legal action against the studio if their ideas were used without further compensation, which again required pulping whatever the originally intended back half of the season was.
 
One thing that rubs me the wrong way in the season is that many things, mostly actions taken, make very little sense and yet we're supposed to pretend that there's nothing wrong about them.

The built-in disadvantage DSC finds itself in is that there's too much time for the characters to engage in second-guessing. In the classic TOS episode, there would not be, and the heroes would be entitled to banging their foreheads for five days after the credits roll, for having missed the obvious solution in the heat of the moment (but thankfully it all worked out all right anyway). Here we see those five days...

Gabrielle thinks nothing of traumatizing little Spock for years in order to save her child while we know that she disposes of powerful devices. I mean, she can transport a village halfway across the galaxy but her only recourse to save her daughter is to contact Spock!! Please!! How about killing the beast? Or transporting it elsewhere? Transporting her daughter near Sarek's house and alerting Sarek with a flare or whatever. I mean we're told that the only way to kill a fly is to use a photon torpedo and we're supposed not to question that!!!

I think this strikes at the same deeper issue as the nonsense about Dr Who never wanting to do a retry with his time machine, because criscrossing the time wires blows up the multiverse or whatever. No doubt Gabrielle B made many mistakes in her early days of time-meddling, and no doubt she would have been inconvenienced by first having to distract or drag away her former selves before she could meddle better. But sometimes the retry should have been worth it.

Then again, all that time meddling no doubt is a house of cards: mess with something done early on, and you lose all the things you originally won with your later meddlings... I could accept this Angel stuff being complicated and likely to make the Angel look conflicted if not outright insane, and what we see of Gabrielle B fits that pretty nicely!

When Pike says to Cornwell that as long as he stays there the torpedo can't go off. The only objection that comes to hers and his mind is that if he's wrong the ship will be destroyed, while the obvious answer is "not if he takes the admiral's place". That's the ridiculously obvious solution given the stupid limitations that are never explained ( using the transporter to beam out the Admiral, using one of the robots to close the door).

Also, a door that malfunctions stops the explosion - while the other door that was said to have worked fine just gets vaporized, along with that half of the saucer that it was supposed to protect?

This whole torpedo nonsense was apparent filler for turning the finale into a two-parter, and one of the most jarring bits there. Lose it, and you lose a lot of other filler, including the repair bots, meaningless Pike and #1 moments, and the fact that Burnham's vision of what is gonna happen never plays into what happens. Just get Cornwell killed somehow (perhaps directly by Leland) and be done with it.

Admittedly, the fate discussion was fun, but could have been worked into any other scenario there, too.

Perhaps the most egregious bit of "missing an obvious solution" comes from squeezing Sarek and Amanda into the episode. It's bad enough that Georgiou somehow just "comes aboard" again, without the heroes making any use of the asset that brought her there. Now the heroes get visited by the effing Vulcan Ambassador, and he skips bringing an armada with him! If telepathic contact with Michael is the one thing Control can't jam, why rub its disuse in our faces?

But the latter half of the season sort of atones for this general sin: they try many a thing with the Sphere Data, and admit to their errors, and ultimately return to a trick they originally pondered using, but didn't. No other Trek show has had the screen time to do something like that...

Timo Saloniemi
 
There is a good chance that the firings had but a modest effect on the direction of the season. Stories were already assigned. At best, they could be reworked, but not dumped.
 
I can't get over just how much promise S2 seemed to hold, with a great arc that inspired some wonder and mystery, that would apparently slowly unfold as the season went on exploring different planets and emergencies....only to devolve into a somewhat messy "defeat the evil AI and tie all kinds of time travel stuff together in a nonsensical way" back 1/3.

I still enjoyed it, but man....what a missed opportunity.
 
I thought it was great. There were a couple of episodes I would have liked to have seen take a different direction, but overall it was an improvement on season one. I’d say it was an 8/10, whereas the freshman year was closer to a 7.

The second-season finale in particular is so many levels of superior to the first that it’s downright comical.
 
The second-season finale is all well and good, except for one little detail. It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever! For example, Michael's time suit is a copy of her mother's, so why can't they dump the sphere data into it the same way they tried with the first one? And then send it to the end of time? Also on Saru's planet when it stopped the Ba'ul's attempt of genocide, they said that the power necessary to do so was almost inconceivable, so why not use that power to defeat the S31 fleet instead of doing all that silly time traveling? There's inconsistency, anywhere you look!!
 
I've had a bit more time to think about it and I think I hate it. I hate the pacing of the show, how everything seems to be universe ending and all sorts. There is a problem with escalation when you start your show with a friggin Klingon War and season 2 is about saving the universe from an AI?

I didn't even mind Season 1, it was just ok. I quite liked a lot of the characters, characters who seemed to just be side tracked in season 2. And I don't find Burnham an interesting character, nor the concept of following a central character like that.
 
I hate that they keep contradicting themselves, sometimes in the very next episode. It shows a disregard for the audience and/or a general sloppiness that is just intolerable. Plus things happen that are never explained. For example, Tyler says that no one that doesn't belong to Boreth ever gets there and no one that belongs there, ever leaves that planet but then Pike goes there and then leaves without any problem.
 
I think that season 2 was ok.
I don't find Burnham an interesting character and was hoping that we get to know the other bridge crew members better.
The only thing I think was great this season was Pike.
 
I've had a bit more time to think about it and I think I hate it. I hate the pacing of the show, how everything seems to be universe ending and all sorts. There is a problem with escalation when you start your show with a friggin Klingon War and season 2 is about saving the universe from an AI?

I didn't even mind Season 1, it was just ok. I quite liked a lot of the characters, characters who seemed to just be side tracked in season 2. And I don't find Burnham an interesting character, nor the concept of following a central character like that.
I have always considered season 1 of TNG, VOY and DS9 to be a bit boring but they did serve an important purpose, they introduced us properly to all of the characters and set the stage in preparation for what was to come.

I think Discovery has suffered from not having a slow and steady start, there was no time taken to really flesh out the characters, the show would have benefited from a first season of standalone episodes rather than going straight into save the Federation/Galaxy/Universe mode.

Those first seasons may have a been a bit slow but the following seasons were all the better for them.

The first half of the season 2 of Discovery was promising with the early addition of Pike, some quality standalone episodes and concentration on the individual characters, after that it started to go a bit downhill with the whole Red Angel storyline and the addition of Skynet/NotTheBorg made it worse.

They should have kept the Klingon War for Season 2, MU and time travel for season 3/4.

The Lorca character was somewhat wasted after being found out as a MU counterpart, he should have just been S31 instead which could have led into a S31 show.

Now they are stuck in the future, they have already done Klingon War, MU, TimeTravel and Skynet/NotTheBorg and it makes me wonder what they have left really, is it just going to be Voyager but in the future.

Who Knows.
 
It really felt like - initially - they were having a great deal of fun with the second season, exploring new worlds, new concepts, and new characters - right up to the sixth episode, when Berg/Harberts were fired. But it was just shocking what was done in the back half, because they proceeded to cobble together an "arc" which somehow involved every major plot point from those earlier episodes - and even some of the Short Treks! Not only was this kinda nonsensical, but it meant that Discovery started lapsing back into the "small quadrant syndrome" which was so evident in the first season - where the entire universe seems to revolve around the Hero Ship. We didn't need New Eden, the Sphere Data, Saru's sister, Ash's son the Klingon time wizard, the Sphere Data being the key to everything, or more effin Po. The conflict versus Control could have worked just fine without trying to weave all of this back in again. Hell, it would have worked better. They'd still need to figure out the how/why of the Red Angel's visitations earlier in the season, but handwaving this and moving on was better than the double-down exposition infodump we got in The Red Angel/Perpetual Infinity.

The finale felt like - in retrospect - the plot equivalent of "controlled demolition" to me. Basically someone - whether Kurtzman or the studio - decided that everything that they had been building up in Discovery for two years was totally unworkable - other than the great cast - and they wanted to wipe the board and do something new.

Honestly, all the baggage from season 2 brought the first half of season 1 down. Captain Pike was by far the best thing about the season, the actor just kinda got it, he was really good. Then they decide to introduce even more convoluted shit, I still don't get why Section 31 is so prevalent either. It could make sense in the Abrams movies, but not the original prime line.

I hope Picard show is better organised.
 
Honestly, all the baggage from season 2 brought the first half of season 1 down. Captain Pike was by far the best thing about the season, the actor just kinda got it, he was really good. Then they decide to introduce even more convoluted shit, I still don't get why Section 31 is so prevalent either. It could make sense in the Abrams movies, but not the original prime line.

I hope Picard show is better organised.
When Discovery ended, I wished to see more Pike and not Discovery. Weren't we told that we'd find out why Section 31 turned into the organization it was in the time of DS9?
 
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