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What used to make me cringe I now see as an asset. What about you?

Cepstrum

Commander
Red Shirt
Hello, there. First time poster, long-time lurked. Sometime I'll introduce myself. But I must make a comment and then ask for you TNG viewers to respond. It's been so compelling to me I went through the laborious process of registering/posting from a mobile device! Here it is:

It's clear TNG's SFX are way behind that of VOY (which is the first series that hooked me enough to start obtaining DVDs and taping it off tv until I'd seen most episodes many times). I later discovered TNG to be equally (if not more so) compelling than VOY. This often caused me to regret the state of the art of SFX and overall visual production quality in the TNG era. "If only TNG could look as good as VOY," I would say to myself.

(An aside: I don't wish to embue too much importance to visual quality. ENT clearly had by far the best, but I really don't care for the show much.)

Nevertheless, I found certain visuals of TNG so bad to the point of distraction. For example, too-obvious sets on away missions, the cardboard-looking type 5 (?) shuttle seen closeup in Time Squared, and the recurring 1980s' hair and clothing styles. Worst, the show's visual identity and style dramatically changed as the series progressed, yet another barrier to suspending disbelief and immersing myself in this alternate reality.

Now, however, my opinion of the aforementioned has completely changed. I still don't deny the changing visuals, but now I see it as adding to the realism. After all, styles and technology changes rapidly in our era, so why not expect the same in TNG? For example, seven years ago, the iPod touch that I use to compose this would seem out-of-place. Hair and clothing preferences change.

People age, too. This was most apparent on TNG, probably more so than most shows (except for ones with kids). It's easy to make fun or chastise the characters for such things as weight gain (Riker), but I think it makes it appear more realistic. While the actors were all above-average in looks, none would be mistaken for a model as in so many shows today (even Archer's physique is suspiciously chiseled for an aged starship captain, and Travis on ENT looks more like a NFL safety than a starship pilot. And don't get me started on Seven and T'Pol! They certainly don't add to the immersion quality.). I liked the "homeliness" (by Hollywood standards) of the Enterprise-D crew, though I much preferred Ms. Troi covered-up.

So now I view the visual evolution of TNG as a strength--much in the same way the characters developed/changed (viz., Worf) over the series.

Now what's your opinion? Do you appreciate it for the reasons I listed, or do you wish it could've been done with today's vastly improved visuals?

I'm hoping for some answers, for this took me an hour to do on my little iPod! (And also for that reason, please forgive in advance the undoubtedly present typos, etc. Proof-reading and correct are extraordinarily difficult on this device.) :)


--Cepstrum
 
I think it's fine. As long as it's not something blatantly ridiculous, like Wesley's season one sweater, "period" visuals don't detract from the show for me. Generally speaking, I find the ideas to be more compelling than the visuals.

I think you make a good point about. If anything, the dated look of the "future" adds to the message that we're constantly changing.
 
I do think that it is unrealistic (in universe) to expect the uniforms to change so frequently.

But generally, for me, it's just a fond trip down memory lane. I look at the 80s/90s clothes and hair, and think back to when my friends and I all switched our hairdos from the Angel One Mistress Beata style to the Dr. Crusher with barrettes style and then to the Janeway blow dried bob style.

If I ever feel the urge to snicker at Wes's sweaters, or the garish patterns on Quark or Neelix's clothing, I remind myself that I used to own a pair of black shorts with "You Can't Touch This" printed on one leg, and a set of neon pink hand prints on the butt. Then I don't feel that I have the right to make fun.

Ah, the good ol' days.
 
I think its odd people mention "80s" hair, when they took the time to put most of the women's hair up, and men's hair was cut short for shipbaord duty...I rarely see any examples of this supposed "80s hair" dilema people talk about.

Also, the FX on STNG are pretty good, its the resolution they were filmed(transferred to) in that bothers me...the ships are perfectly composited yet fuzzy because of it.

Stage design and so on could have been better, but that's not something they can really fix in a remastering atthis point.

RAMA
 
RAMA wrote:
I think its odd people mention "80s" hair, when they took the time to put most of the women's hair up, and men's hair was cut short for shipbaord duty...I rarely see any examples of this supposed "80s hair" dilema people talk about.

The worst offenders that I can remember were in the first season--the women in the Riker boy-toy ep (can't remember the name right now) and Wyatt Miller in "Haven." I think you see it more with the guests than in the main cast. Not a deal-breaker for me, by any stretch of the imagination.
 
By "80s' styles" I was primarily referring to the guest stars. As someone correctly pointed out, the crew looked like you'd picture a starship crew to look: fairly uniform, conservative styling.
 
Doesn't bother me in the least. Everything's a snapshot of the time in which it was created. Everything looks dated 20 years later. So what? Believe me, people in 2030 will be laughing their asses off at the stuff we think is state-of-the art today. We're pretty smug and full of ourselves right now, and that's going to make it even funnier. People were full of themselves in the '80s, walking around with giant brick-sized cell phones thinking they were really cool, and look how funny that seems now.

killRam.jpg
 
I do think that it is unrealistic (in universe) to expect the uniforms to change so frequently.

But generally, for me, it's just a fond trip down memory lane. I look at the 80s/90s clothes and hair, and think back to when my friends and I all switched our hairdos from the Angel One Mistress Beata style to the Dr. Crusher with barrettes style and then to the Janeway blow dried bob style.

If I ever feel the urge to snicker at Wes's sweaters, or the garish patterns on Quark or Neelix's clothing, I remind myself that I used to own a pair of black shorts with "You Can't Touch This" printed on one leg, and a set of neon pink hand prints on the butt. Then I don't feel that I have the right to make fun.

Ah, the good ol' days.

I recently found a pic of myself from 1991 or so with slicked back hair(LA Looks!), a purple silk shirt and really bright acid-washed jeans. I'm standing there with my thumbs in my beltloops looking at the camera like, "Yeah, I'm cool." :lol: I was about 14 or so.
 
I can pretty much look away from the 80's product element of TNG and simply immerse myself in the storyline, after all TNG rarely had a bad episode, each episode was character driven and always contained the fundamental "Trek Elements" (Treknobabble, Shouts Outs To Previous Missions, Chain Of Command and indeed a Utopian Society)

Some of the attire in TNG was questionable though, anyone remember the hilariously terrible off duty clothing? If anyone remembers the episode where the Continium strip Q of his powers and he seeks refuge on the Enterprise, well in that episode Q is wearing a horrible green off duty jumpsuit and theres a line in the episode where Q and another Q remark on the awful colour choice, however the worst thing about these jumpsuits was that they always showed the outline of the male actors genitals, although modesty wouldn't really be an issue in the 24th Century, there would still likely be a modesty code (unless you're Deltan or Betazoid)

Another thing that really gets to me is the stuff Wesley wore, like another poster mentioned the first season "Acting Ensigns" sweater was just atrocious and later on in Season 5's "The Game" the formal off duty attire that Wesley wore was pretty terrible also

Best Costume though in the series has got to be Picard's "Riding Uniform" which he wore throughout his "John McClane Style Terrorist Prevention" in Season 6's "Starship Mine"
 
I have to object about the Enterprise D crew being just "above average" looking. They were the best looking crew in Star Trek. Deanna Troi was the most beautiful woman in the universe - Seven was OK, T'Pol was good looking, but the counselor was perfect. Voyager's crew were very bland, DS9 were all ugly as sin. Enterprise did have a good looking crew though, but not as good as TNG.

I am so glad that TNG never used much CGI. The Best of Both Worlds still looks good today - nearly 20 years on. But the CGI in the other shows look terrible - especially Enterprise.
 
Deanna Troi was the most beautiful woman in the universe
She's definitely one of them. Grrrrowwwwlll

Thanks for coming out of lurking, Cepstrum, more and new voices really are needed around here.

I like the "product of it's time" effect. TNG does NOT have "bad" FX. It has phenomenal FX for it's time, and like an old computer or peice of technology, I like them in their time. You can put an Athlon X6 system in your Amiga case, but I like old tech for what it is.
More FX ability does not necessarily mean better visuals, or better FX. IMHO CGI remastering is best when done do clean up, or enhance, FX in place. But CGI isn't always that good looking to me. Some of the Star Wars remastered and newer SW films look very cartoony to me. The new Enterprise in ST-RM looks completely sterile to my eyes - how much more realistic a model looks to me.
TOS-RM is the best case in point. When the FX are subtly enhanced, or increased in resolution, this is good. But when they cut to CGI starships, as nice as they look, it takes me out of the story. Sometimes the older technology IS superior to the new. CGI is only superior because it is more cost effective. But to me there is NO comparison between a CGI ship and a large model.

When I saw this thread title I thought it was referring to story/character elements that once made me cringe. The same has happened there for me. The content of some episodes speaks to you differently as you age, and like those characters, hair styles change, or it falls out. The mark of classic series like the ST ones is how they continue to speak to us over time.
 
The thing is all movies and TV shows (even ones set in the future) all reflect the time period in which they were filmed. I can watch the original War of the Worlds movie and tell that it was filmed in the 1950s. 20 years from now we will look at the most recent Star trek movie and will be able to tell it was filmed in the late part of the 2000's.
 
I agree with the consensus here. I'm just saying that I actually think it makes TNG seem more realistic because it shows the (true) passage of time. If the show were supposed to have occurred over only a period of a year or less, then it would be distracting. The ability to easily tell which season a TNG show occurred in at a mere glance makes it more seem more like real life. Just my opinion.
 
I have to object about the Enterprise D crew being just "above average" looking. They were the best looking crew in Star Trek. Deanna Troi was the most beautiful woman in the universe - Seven was OK, T'Pol was good looking, but the counselor was perfect. Voyager's crew were very bland, DS9 were all ugly as sin. Enterprise did have a good looking crew though, but not as good as TNG.

I am so glad that TNG never used much CGI. The Best of Both Worlds still looks good today - nearly 20 years on. But the CGI in the other shows look terrible - especially Enterprise.

I think the original poster is confusing young for handsome/beautiful. Enterprise had a bunch of people that "looked" very young, even Scott Bakula looked younger than he is.

On TNG, the crew looks older, more "mature". It's arguable whether that equates to handsome/beautiful.

I'm straight, so I can chime in and say that Beverly was extremely hot, and most definitely a MILF. Deanna had a beautiful face, but I didn't like her body as much. Some sausage suits and that frizzy mop she wore for hair didn't help.

As for the men, don't a ton of women think Patrick Stewart looks hot? And I see nothing wrong with Riker. Any women/gay men care to chime in?
 
As for the men, don't a ton of women think Patrick Stewart looks hot? And I see nothing wrong with Riker. Any women/gay men care to chime in?

Picard pulled off the bald look well, and was sorta good looking for a old guy.

Riker on the other hand was hands down f--ing hot. :bolian: I personally think when he got older on the set he aged like fine wine.
 
Out of all of them though, Patrick Stewart, Gates McFadden and Michael Dorn have probably aged the best, I mean Patrick Stewart looks almost exactly the same as he did when the show started, Michael Dorn is one of those guys that retains their youth and Gates McFadden either has an excellent plastic surgeon, or she just really takes care of herself
 
I'm seeing 1st season TNG for the first time in a while now thanks to syndication. What strikes me is how the production values are very much like TOS, especially the alien planets that are obviously on a soundstage with foam rubber rocks.

It's a nice kind of familiar look to the 2010 me. I honestly don't remember how I felt in 1987.
 
It's not the special effects that are the problem for me, it's the general picture quality - TNG looks absolutely shite on my HDTV, like it was filmed under a muddy blanket. A lot of other shows from the same period are fine but TNG is unwatchable for me.
 
As for the men, don't a ton of women think Patrick Stewart looks hot? And I see nothing wrong with Riker. Any women/gay men care to chime in?

Picard pulled off the bald look well, and was sorta good looking for a old guy.

Riker on the other hand was hands down f--ing hot. :bolian: I personally think when he got older on the set he aged like fine wine.

Cool, thanks for the input. Riker looks like what I would think a handsome guy looks like, particularly 1st Season Riker (reminds me a lot of Chuck Wagner, from "Automan") not sure if the beard makes him look better or worse.

Out of all of them though, Patrick Stewart, Gates McFadden and Michael Dorn have probably aged the best, I mean Patrick Stewart looks almost exactly the same as he did when the show started, Michael Dorn is one of those guys that retains their youth and Gates McFadden either has an excellent plastic surgeon, or she just really takes care of herself

As much as I though Gates McFadden looked really hot in TNG, I found by the movies she was starting to get long in the tooth. Marina Sirtis still looked hot up to Insurrection, but started to show age by Nemesis. And it's true about Patrick Stewart. The guy looks freakin' the same from Encounter at Farpoint all the way up to Insurrection. Nemesis though you could see his age starting to creep on him.
 
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