What should be done in Africa

[Miss Chicken]

Namer one country in Africa that doesn't have phones? Every single third-world nations has phones aready. NAme me one country in Africa that doesn't already have electricity.

The cost of providing electricity to remote villages in Africa is extremely high and there are much better things to do with that money because electricity is not a neccessity for life.

To build solar energy plants all over Africa when the money could be spent on medical supplies or education etc is just a waste of resources as most Africans who are currently without electricity couldn't afford to buy electrical products if electricity became available and nearly all elecrical product has an electricity free alternative.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

ya know what, I just cannot be arsed carrying on. Do I really need to keep answering your questions? we could be here for months whilst I answer all your nitpicky questions that could be easily answered by a 5 year old.
If you want the answers go do some research and learn the answers yourself.
I have to go, when I come back maybe i'll be arsed to answer them. Dear lord!

 

[Miss Chicken]

All my 'nitpicks' have been based on looking at things realistic whereas you whole plan is totally idealistic and unrealistic. The funding for it would be so high that it couldn't even be financed. Several people, not just me. here have sugegsted good reasons why it wouldn't work such as political instabilty, corruption, armed conflict, lack of land etc.

In fact I don't think anyone but you have considered this plan to be doable.

If you are so sure that it woud work I suggest that you contact charities that help Africa and get the ball rolling. Then in a few years you can come back here and say 'I was right, you were wrong" to me.

 

[Lookingglassman]

The only way to deal with Africa is to have the world invade it, get rid of all the dictators, kill of the maurading bands of rapist and murderers then establish a new government and then rebuild.

This wont happen because:

1. It will take years and many lives to quell the violence in some parts of Africa.
2. It will take trillions to fix this continent.
3. The world dont care about blacks in Africa therefore they arent going to be seen as worth the effort.
4. Most of Africa has nothing the world wants so they will receive no help.

 

[Danoz]

It would probably help to think of Africa as something other than a monolithic block.

Exactly.

I think the OP just took his first freshman "world politics" course and he's ready to delve in and solve problems.

It's nice, you're treating this like its "Africa the country," where all people in all areas live like aboriginal hunters and gatherers. In several areas people do not live in tribal areas, they live in homes, with streets and cars and plumbing, they speak English and French. Now, you want to start studying real problems in Africa?

HIV/AIDS epidemic in Sub-Saharan Africa:. The continent has 60% of the worlds HIV/AIDS infected population. There are vast social stigmas with the disease as well, so many people refuse to be tested. In some places people are ostracized for having the disease. It is a leading cause of death.

Malaria: Deadly illness caused by parasites who attach themselves to female mosquitoes. Unlike HIV/AIDS, this disease takes complete control causing every flu symptom imaginable. Malaria kills and destroys, it is endemic (meaning it belongs to a specific geography).

Neglected Diseases: These effect the populations you would consider ideal candidates for your small, self-contained cities. They attach themselves to the lining and insides and you can actually feel them under the belly of the people they infect (which is a rather unbelievable number of people). Your idea of having readily farmed food in the area is great, except for these parasites are known to suck the nutrients from the host no matter how much they eat. Luckily, these can be treated for 50 cents a person per year with a simple pill... but it is still a very serious problem.

Tuberculosis: TB is a pulmonary disorder. It is a very common cause of death in HIV infected patients and it can attack the lungs, central nervous system, lymphatic system, and more. It's very deadly, and the people contracting it are often too weak to fight it off.

That is just a fraction of the public health issues covered very broadly. Your water systems are often plagued with cholera epidemics (check recent news in Zimbabwe). There is ethic violence and genocide to consider, also. It's a nice thought to think that your circular villages could just "live in peace," but that's more difficult when political borders were drawn haphazardly as a result of colonization, and leaders profit immensely from corruption. What do you think a local military would do with these newfound resources? Spread them about the people?

I'm not trying to harass you here, I just want you to take what seems to be an open mind and understand that there are many, many people in dozens of fields working in unison to solve these problems. The water pumps you mentioned have done wonders some areas where they are installed. Those low cost homes are nice, too-- and they ARE being built. The United States, in particular, under George W. Bush sent unprecedented resources in the country with PEPFAR (the President's Emergency Plan to Fight Aids, TB and Malaria). We are distributing medications for neglected diseases. The Gates Foundation is funding programs all of the world to find cures for these disaseses. The Faith Based organizations are sending thousands of people abroad. People are working hard, but it is a daunting task.

If you are committed to helping, there are so many ways. Just look into it.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Several people, not just me. here have sugegsted good reasons why it wouldn't work such as political instabilty, corruption, armed conflict, lack of land etc.

and none of you are even remotely interested in why political instability, corruption and armed conflict even exist there. It's caused by famine, lack of food and safe drinking water, many people end up moving to other areas looking for food and water and settling down on land belonging to other tribes. If you build these people their own towns ready with water and food and power they have no reason to move about causing tension. Your lack of land theory is completely ridiculous, it only exists in a small number of countries and it's easily rectified as I said by building on top of existing settlements.
It will cost a lot of money no doubt but it's not a quick fix fortnight long endeavour, it will take years to build these towns and help people in Africa but it will be powered by donations and government help from multiple nations around the globe. It's not enough for them to just live like they're in the 12th century neither, with power comes opportunity for growth, education and better medicine and better forms of communication all of which will be required if they ever want to grow their town and have an economy that can trade and make money. No good will come from keeping them in the dark.

I'm well aware there are large towns and cities in Africa all of which have electricity and plumbing and roads and cars etc etc but these towns are not being built for those areas, they're being built for the small villages that are far away from these city areas where they have even less. These towns are for the places desperate for food, shelter and water where they have no hope of surviving or having a decent life.

Eventually these towns will help bring people out of poverty, give them good homes and a prosperous future. When we leave them after construction of their town they can help eachother by expanding it year after year. Babys that will be born in these towns can grow up never having to do without food, never having to trek miles for water. They will have more time to spend on their educations. They can build more and more home without our help because they were given help from us to get started.

As towns crop up all around and roads are built between them they can trade with eachother, communicate with eatchother and learn that fighting isn't the answer but working together is.

I know there are hotspots in Africa like in Sudan and the Dem Rep of the Congo but many other areas of Africa aren't prone to fighting, that only comes about when famine and drought forces migration and thus conflict. Prevent migration and keep tribes on their own land and there will be no need for conflict, if one town is suffering a food shortage rather than go off fighting to take it from somewhere else they can do what the rest of the world does and trade for it.

This isn't a superfix for all of Africas problems but it's a step in the right direction. It's helping those people in scattered villages in the middle of nowhere struggling to survive. It's for those people who don't live in the urban areas who can afford to drive cars.
You don't start out by helping those less needy, you go directly to those who need it the most.

These towns aren't going to be supertowns. They'll have a necessary sized solar power plant, well water, enough crop land to begin with and homes that are decent to live in. I'm not talking about building them mansions here, they'll be homes that are liveable built from cheap but sturdy materials but better than what they have now.

 

[Miss Chicken]

and none of you are even remotely interested in why political instability, corruption and armed conflict even exist there. It's caused by famine, lack of food and safe drinking water, many people end up moving to other areas looking for food and water and settling down on land belonging to other tribes. If you build these people their own towns ready with water and food and power they have no reason to move about causing tension.

What caused famine in Zimbabwe? It wasn't caused by famine or lack of food. It was caused by Mugabe taking productive land of the farmers and giving it away to his mates that new nothing about farming and who let the farms go to ruin. Do you really think someone like Mugabe is going to let towns be built for people he consider to be his enemies?

Putting in solar plants isn't going to help the millions of people with HIV In Botswana about 23% of the adult population have the disease. What they need most is drugs that will enable them to live and raise their children. If the vast majority of charity aid went into supporting your plan (which is a very expensive plan) what would happen to HIV treatment in the population?

The west cannot even manage to house their own homeless people let alone rehouse millions of Africans who already have homes, and better homes than those who live in shanty towns in big African cities.

 

[Thespeckledkiwi]

You think Africa is bad, go to parts of South America...Why do we simply focus on Africa?

 

[Miss Chicken]

^^^ and parts of Asia as well.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

What caused famine in Zimbabwe? It wasn't caused by famine or lack of food. It was caused by Mugabe taking productive land of the farmers and giving it away to his mates that new nothing about farming and who let the farms go to ruin. Do you really think someone like Mugabe is going to let towns be built for people he consider to be his enemies?

Zimbabwe is obviously a no go country as of right now but when leadership changes we can move in and help out. How leadership changes is up to the worlds governments and not the charity organisations.

Putting in solar plants isn't going to help the millions of people with HIV In Botswana about 23% of the adult population have the disease. What they need most is drugs that will enable them to live and raise their children. If the vast majority of charity aid went into supporting your plan (which is a very expensive plan) what would happen to HIV treatment in the population?

It's incurable, what use is pouring more and more money into treating people when nobody is cured? more money shouldn't be thrown at helping to alleviate the symptoms, i'm not saying money and treatment should be stopped but throwing more money isn't the answer. Yes they get to live longer but look at the big picture and think about it for a minute. How can we stop the spread of AIDS? we need to educate the African people from a young age in schools, we need to give them access to hospitals and give them a clean hygienic way of living, all of which can be supplied by my towns.

How are we going to cure the AIDS problem? not by throwing more and more money into treatments that do absolutely nothing whatsoever to stop the spread of AIDS but by fixing the route cause of the problem, lack of education, lack of hospital access and poor living conditions.

You think Africa is bad, go to parts of South America...Why do we simply focus on Africa?

because I want to?

 

[Star Wolf]

How do you protect the first towns being built from those who live lower on the priority scale? The UN? Troops from countries whose citizens vote out their governments because of the African misadventure? Mercenaries?

 

[All Seeing Eye]

How do you protect the first towns being built from those who live lower on the priority scale? The UN? Troops from countries whose citizens vote out their governments because of the African misadventure? Mercenaries?

Those people and areas who will be getting them first won't be in any able position to cause any trouble, and what would be the point in risking such confrontation when they'll be getting their own towns eventually? if several villages in one area agree to share a town then that's even better.
Besides that, the people living in these towns would I imagine create their own defence forces to protect the towns.

 

[Miss Chicken]

So lets see ehat your plan actually is

1) Build new houses
2) Build solar power plants
3) Put in wells
4) Create communal farms
5) Arm the people
6) Build better roads, bridges etc

and I suppose you will have to find some method of storing and transporting what the farms produce.

Most of these things are already being done in Africa by charities including installing solar power as is HIV awareness and prevention. However education doesn't help those already affected - drugs could help them live long enough to raise their children rather than having the children orphaned before they can care for themselves.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

Most of these things are already being done in Africa by charities including installing solar power as is HIV awareness and prevention.

So can you please be clear then exactly what your problem is? i'm talking about focusing the charity money more effectively, creating more efficient towns, fully powered and with educational and medical facilities and you're complaining that it can't be done? yet you've just said in your last post it's already being done?

You're not making much sense. Contradict yourself much or what?

 

[Miss Chicken]

My problem is with the grandeur of your plan and it unworkabilty.

One can provide an African family with solar power without needing to move them to an specially constructed town. One can also provide them with a better house and a well. There is no need to construct new towns at all.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

My problem is with the grandeur of your plan and it unworkabilty.

One can provide an African family with solar power without needing to move them to an specially constructed town. One can also provide them with a better house and a well. There is no need to construct new towns at all.

So let me get this straight, charities build people new homes, dig wells and provide them with solar energy. So at what point does the old village disappear and a new town is created?
My problem is the way charities go about doing it. My idea is to focus the effort, direct the money specifically at doing all this in a more precise efficient manner. Build towns that are predetermined and fully powered. It's no different than what happening now except it's being done in a more direct approach. The towns get built, the people move in and the old villages become abandoned and can be rebuilt over or have crops planted in it's place.
You're just not grasping the fact my towns idea is a step foward from what's being done already and chances are the money will be spent more wisely.

 

[Deimos Anomaly]

I think what we need to do in Africa is to use the charity money obtained more wisely. I think the money used isn't focused enough on what needs doing. I don't think going village to village building the odd water well here and there is the best method of doing things.

I think we should send teams of experts, engineers and builders to different African countries and start building large towns from scratch.
This is my idea:

1. Build one of these to begin with, not necessarily THAT big.
2. Around this solar power station begin construction of many of these.
3. Once you have power and water begin construction of these.
   
   Nice affordable cheap to construct but well designed houses and build some schools and other amenities.
4. Arrange the houses in a circular grid like fashion outwards from the solar powerstation. On the outskirts of town build more of these.
5. Beyond these start planting these. and use water from the water wells in point 4 to keep them watered.
6. Start moving people into these new towns from their crappy villages from far and wide.

I think if charities band together to start building these towns up from scratch people might pay more interest in helping African people. If charities were to advertise asking for money to help build these towns there'd be a lot more people interested in donating, at least people will know that their money is going directly into building them.

I personally would rather donate a lump sum of £100 now and again to go towards this then pay £2 a month and not know what it's going on.

I would hope that eventually as these towns grow in prosperity and expand that they will be capable of building other towns themselves on their own wealth. Eventually there will be hundreds of these prosperous towns and by use of well placed roads will be able to trade with eachother and if they can plant more and more fields of crops they could export their produce to other nations.

Better idea: Step 1 - Find African countries that are ruled by shitheads. There are a bunch of these and they are the ones you want to concentrate on. There are several african countries not ruled by shitheads, but these ones are mostly growing and developing anyway at their own pace, even if somewhat slowly, and it's probably best to let them be. Anyway, you pick a country with a shithead(s) at the top to start with. Then go to step 2.

Step 2 - Look around for a democratic reistance. There usually is one or several. A word of warning: DON'T PICK A SOCIALIST ONE. They'll end up as bad as the people they're replacing. It's probably a good idea that they not be any kind of religious fundamentalists as well, or from any one particular tribal group. (If different tribal etc. democratic resistance groups with similar aims exist, try to weld them into one)

Step 3 - Set up a black ops program to start funding and training and building up this resistance into a a credible, armed organisation. You also want them to have a bunch of people who will be able to build a nation in future - economists, levelheaded legislators etc, not just meatheads.

Step 4 - The resistance kicks out the shitheads and puts in an interim gov't and sets a date for free elections. This date should be a while in the future (maybe a year or two) so that the people get to see that the new gov't is better than the old one and will be inclined to vote for them (if not nescesarily for the same exact ministers/senators/president). Another thing they'll want to do very quickly after taking power is to tell the standing armed forces (formerly the shithead's army) not to disband, to remain in their job and that they will be getting a pay rise. It needn't be super-dramatic, maybe 5 or 10 percent, but it's important to do this very early on to ensure their loyalty to the new gov't and make sure they don't try to kick you out and reinstall the shitheads.

Step 5 - with assistance from your black ops money flow they start putting the country in order, building up civil engineering, etc, encouraging outside investment. With luck the country's fortunes will begin to up and soon they won't need your money flow and will be able to swim on their own.

 

[Miss Chicken]

My problem is with the grandeur of your plan and it unworkabilty.

One can provide an African family with solar power without needing to move them to an specially constructed town. One can also provide them with a better house and a well. There is no need to construct new towns at all.

So let me get this straight, charities build people new homes, dig wells and provide them with solar energy. So at what point does the old village disappear and a new town is created?
My problem is the way charities go about doing it. My idea is to focus the effort, direct the money specifically at doing all this in a more precise efficient manner. Build towns that are predetermined and fully powered. It's no different than what happening now except it's being done in a more direct approach. The towns get built, the people move in and the old villages become abandoned and can be rebuilt over or have crops planted in it's place.
You're just not grasping the fact my towns idea is a step foward from what's being done already and chances are the money will be spent more wisely.

For a start it means that people do not have to live in towns to get access to power. They can live on their farms.

 

[All Seeing Eye]

For a start it means that people do not have to live in towns to get access to power. They can live on their farms.

What farms? the first people to be getting these towns don't have farms. They get food packages dropped by air in order to survive.

 

[Miss Chicken]

The vast maority of Africans do not get food packages dropped on them. The vast majority of Africans are famers working already established farms.