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What should be done in Africa

Just a point i'd like to make, solar panels aren't very efficient methods of producing power on their own. Better methods are 'Solar power towers'. These are single towers surrounded by mirrors that reflect more and more sunlight onto the towers central point which is far more efficient and produces far more power than sticking solar panels on roofs of houses.
Compared to solar panels mirrors are pretty cheap, the most cost would be the solar tower which would be far cheaper than hundreds or thousands of roof top solar panels.
 
It costs more money to supply individual houses with solar panels and less efficient then it would be to build a single solar power plant that feeds an entire town. Also my idea was never to supply each house a radio, it was to supply the town with one and lightbulbs last I checked didn't cost $50.

look, we're going to just have to agree to disagree on this one, otherwise we'll be here forever.

Actually I costed lamps not just the lighbulbs. I concede that a plain lightbulb would be much cheaper than a lamp but I also point out that more things can go wrong with an actual electrical system which an electricain would have to fix.

What is the use with just having one radio per town. Maybe one two way radio per town but what about radios for personal use? Radios are a much desired possession in Africa. Unfortunately in the past batteries were hard and expensive to obtain which is why crank radios are becoming so popular.
 
Other options are Solar dishes. Ironically there's some been constructed in Australia. LINK.
Obviously for an African town this much power wouldn't need to be generated, so the cost would be nowhere near that size.

EDIT: smaller and cheaper ones will soon be available.

EDIT 2: Ya know what I find incredible, on the 1st of September 2007 I posted an idea for a satellite dish style solar power plant and now in late 2008 people are working on building them. I wish i'd worked on my own idea back in 2007, I might be a millionaire now. I knew my satellite dish style idea had merit.
 
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I hereby appoint you to lead this project Taccy. Report back to us upon completion.

Seriously. For the amount of effort you've expended in this thread, you could have gone out there into that thar "real world" I've heard tell of, and started work on creating your own NGO to put your plan into effect.

But for starters, you should get some experience by spending two or three years working in Africa for an existing NGO, one of those dumb ones that are doing everything wrong, and could really benefit from your guidance. After you get them whipped into shape, then spin off your own organization. By then you'll be able to create the most effective NGO in history, since you already know more than everyone else right now.

Good luck. Come back in five to ten years and give us an update how you're doing! :)
 
All I know is that I'm not donating any money to something like this. There's too many local non-profits (and people) who could use the help.
 
It would probably help to think of Africa as something other than a monolithic block.

You're just arguing semantics. pretty much all of Africa is suffering from food, home and water shortages.

May I point you in the direction of this video, which is quite eye opening: http://www.gapminder.org/videos/ted...d-2006-debunking-myths-about-the-third-world/

I overlooked this link when it was first posted it. I have looked at it now. It ws very interesting. Thanks very much for providing the link.
 
Ah yes, delicious sarcasm.

When you can't defend your ideas, or can't do it without attacking everyone else, not sure what else you expect. This is why the Evil Overlord checklist (link below) clearly calls for the use of a 5 year old Child Advisor to review the evil master plan before you implement it, so you can correct the obvious flaws that even a 5 year old can point out.

http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
 
I haven't read the whole thing (net's going off soon), but I've got the gist.

I was going to start a thread on this (scarily similar idea), but a completely different approach. I wish this was in TNZ, because it has the potential to be viewed as paternalistic, racist, and imperialistic.

I started thinking about this some years ago when there was a story about the possibility of a Japanese based multinational in effect buying an African country - that is, giving a squillion to the then dictator, installing a puppet government, and turning the locals into their workforce. I didn't think that was such a good idea, and thought about what could be done.

The idea I came up with was... the old powers take back their colonies.

Why? They have a responsibility still to see them get on their feet,. Now, Rhodesia, Kenya, Uganda, a host of others, were heading this way, when they were derailed by greed and tribalism. So were they really ready or not? It's a difficult question to judge now. I'd certainly like to talk to revolutionaries who fought for the colonial powers to leave - do they still think it was a good idea?

I also remember something an Indonesian girl, a co-worker once told me. She said, with some anger, "I wish the British had controlled Indonesia instead of the Dutch". Which was food for thought. So it would have to be 21st Century colonialism, more caring and sharing, with more going back to the people instead of the home country (at one stage the British East India Company was paying more tax than the rest of the UK put together). The colonial powers bring two things above all else: Rule of law and organisation. Okay, not always rule of law, but I bet they would these days. And organisation, so that money can't be skimmed off, is key.

One of my favourite writers was George MacDonald Fraser. He could be quite an old curmudgeon at times, but I think this was true, from his novel, Flashman and the Mountain of Light:

A word first, though. You'll have heard it said that the British Empire was acquired in an absence of mind - one of those smart Oscarish squibs that sounds well but is thoroughly fat-headed. Presence of mind, if you like - and countless other things, such as greed and Christianity, decency and villainy, policy and lunacy, deep design and blind chance, pride and trade, pride and trade, blunder and curiosity, passion and ignorance, chivalry and expediency, honest pursuit of right, and determination to keep the bloody Frogs out. And often as not, such things came tumbling together, and when the dust had settled, there we were [the Brits], and who else was going to set things straight and feed the folk and guard the gate and dig the drains - oh aye, and take the profit, by all means.

...

When I'm done, you may not be much clearer on how the map came to be one-fifth pink, but at least you should realise that it ain't something to be summed up in an epigram. Absence of mind, my arse. We always knew what we were doing; we just didn't know how it would pan out.
I can't find the other quote I wanted to apply here but it was something like this:
"And after the battles have ended, and the loot claimed, who else was going to rebuild the hospitals and schools, and straighten the roads, and temper the warlords, put together a government, and bring in the medicines? That's right, us. Damn little thanks we got, too".

And that's what needed in Africa now, along with OLPC, wireless networks and free AIDs medicines. Organisation. What doesn most of the continent have? Tyranny of one type or another, child armies, famine, other illnesses like Ebola, wars and revolutions, huge numbers of refugees, a terrible lack of clean water, and racism, of one African against another.

For all that colonialism is derided, and sometimes with good reason, I would ask you to compare the prosperity of Rhodesia in the 1950s and 60 compared to Zimbabwe now. Granted that's a worst case scenario, but I have a feeling things are going wrong in South Africa too, one of the strongest democracies on the continent, and for pretty much the same reasons. Overall, in terms of health, education, and simply more people alive at the end of the day, which works better - self government or colonialism?

It would be hard to persuade the locals that this would be a good thing. But if they look at the chaos around them, at their children not doing so well as they had done under colonial rule, I think it would be given serious consideration.

What would be in it for the colonial powers? Jobs, for one thing. Profit, but much reduced, instead recycling a large share of that profit back into the country, but a little profit nonetheless. And by bringing in technology common in the First World, it would rag the Third World out of the 19th Century.

In my mind, at the end of the day, it has nothing to do with racism, conquest or greed, and everything to do with humanity, and helping someone who's fallen down.

It could be done. But people and governments are far too greedy, lazy and/or power seeking. Sad, really, because it could work really well.

This is all a bit random, I know, I'll give it some more thought if anyone's interested, and get back to you later.
 
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How'd you do it the first time? A lot like that, mainly, with a little less leeway for slavery, torture, or murder, I'd imagine.

The basic idea seems to be that the Colonial powers fucked these countries up royally by half-assing in the first time, so they should have a reponsibility to go back and help steer them in the right direction.

On the plus side, it would put the entire weight of a country behind these ideas, and you'd probably have the money/influence to try and force your Potter's Field towns upon the masses...
 
How'd you do it the first time? A lot like that, mainly, with a little less leeway for slavery, torture, or murder, I'd imagine.

If we can't even sort out Afghanistan how can we possibly take back former colonies by force? It would be a bloodbath and we'd never be able to hold them.
 
No one is trying to take over Afghanistan, merely locate and subdue certain rebel groups. Government, and any real resistance, disappeared in 2002. Still some brutal fighting on occasion, but Afghanistan "fell" a while ago. And has been making due with very little attention/support, as they moved on to the Iraq clusterfuck instead of finishing up in Afghanistan.

Not saying it wouldn't be hard, or costly, just saying that the policy that was put forward is basically: You broke it, You fix it.
 
and it's a lofty idea, but you haven't addressed ANY of the massive, deal-breaking logistical issues that have been raised...

Which are? I didn't see any mention in the thread regarding logistics. (please use quotes so I know who posted what).

Do you think ANYTHING all the way through before calling out your lofty ideas and wondering why the hell else no one has thought of the same thing before?

Does it never occur to you that there might be a REASON?
 
Tachyon, what African country have you actually visited. Between my brother an I we've been to Uganda, Ethiopia, Senegal, and Burkina Faso. I've seen the poverty and experience some of it. Your idea sounds great, but isn't necessarily feasible.

It takes more than building nice houses and providing electricty via solar systems. People need education, they need health care, etc. Some are making slow gains, and they are doing on their own. Others, have a long ways to go.

Take Somalia for example, an old woman was asked by an author how much did she want peace; her response was "more than anything else," yet when asked if she was willing to share power with other clans, here response was basically "kill them" These attitudes can't be adjusted by building a new house.

Zimbabwe is a great example. Agrarian reform has been a major issue in many countries throughout the world. Usually it implies giving land to those shut out of land for farming, although other options also exist. Yet, when the land was siezed and given to Mugabe's supporters they ended shifting Zimbabwe from a country that was a food exporter to a food importer.
 
and it's a lofty idea, but you haven't addressed ANY of the massive, deal-breaking logistical issues that have been raised...

Which are? I didn't see any mention in the thread regarding logistics. (please use quotes so I know who posted what).

Do you think ANYTHING all the way through before calling out your lofty ideas and wondering why the hell else no one has thought of the same thing before?

Does it never occur to you that there might be a REASON?

I think this thread proves I thought through every possible factor. Nobody has yet to show or prove why my idea would fail. :cool:

It takes more than building nice houses and providing electricty via solar systems. People need education, they need health care, etc.

The towns will be supplied with schools, educational facilities and hospital facilities. As I said previous.

Take Somalia for example, an old woman was asked by an author how much did she want peace; her response was "more than anything else," yet when asked if she was willing to share power with other clans, here response was basically "kill them" These attitudes can't be adjusted by building a new house.

Clans and tribes won't be sharing the towns, they'll have their own on their own lands. As I said previous.
 
Which are? I didn't see any mention in the thread regarding logistics. (please use quotes so I know who posted what).

Do you think ANYTHING all the way through before calling out your lofty ideas and wondering why the hell else no one has thought of the same thing before?

Does it never occur to you that there might be a REASON?

I think this thread proves I thought through every possible factor. Nobody has yet to show or prove why my idea would fail. :cool:

I see several posts telling you in detail why it's not at all feasible, but if you want to deny reality you can be my guest. It would certainly fit the pattern you've established.
 
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