Were any of the accusations about any kind of unwanted harrassment or rape? I thought it was just consensual affairs? Obviously that's bad too, but I wouldn't think it would be enough to lose him jobs.
What next for Joss Whedon?
- Thread starter Jayson1
- Start date
The allegations are that from the begining of his career to present he used his position of authority to engage in numerous affairs with (much younger) starlets wanting roles on his shows and films, the implication being they had to sleep with him or he'd fire/not hire them. Meanwhile he was publically claiming to be a hardcore feminist who cast these young women as an act of female empowerment.
Is that enough cost him his job making Batgirl? Who knows. His ex wife's accusations have mostly blown over in the wake of bigger scandals. No one else corroborated (or denied) them.
It might be bad for us, but I was disappointed when I headed over to a BtVS fan site to see if they were talking about the new 4CD set of score from La La Land Records, and the obsessed Whedonites see it totally different. One thread was titled something like: Who Cares if Whedon Did Any of Those Things.
Yeah. they care more about him making TV and movies than if he used women who were hoping to just break into the tough Hollywood industry. If true, it's like that Minnie Mouse seen from "Family Guy":
Yeah. they care more about him making TV and movies than if he used women who were hoping to just break into the tough Hollywood industry. If true, it's like that Minnie Mouse seen from "Family Guy":
Is it known if any women have come out and accused him of wrongdoing? If not, I don't see that a series of affairs, though adulterous and hurtful to his wife, represent sex assault or sexual harassment, especially if the ony one making the accusation is a third party.
A lot of accusers still haven't stepped forward. They either don't want people to know what they did to get ahead and who they did and what, or they are rightfully afraid of retaliation once the movement quiets down.
I know an actress there, for example, who told me about two incidents, one from a well-known producer of a famous TV series no doubt most people here have seen. Nobody has come forward to accuse either of the guys she mentioned, yet. More shoes will fall.
I remember somebody else in the industry telling me that the running "joke" is that if you want to get ahead, you "Have to have sex with ______". I won't say his name (it's not my place as I have no director knowledge), but ever single board member knows his name. That shoe hasn't dropped either.
I know an actress there, for example, who told me about two incidents, one from a well-known producer of a famous TV series no doubt most people here have seen. Nobody has come forward to accuse either of the guys she mentioned, yet. More shoes will fall.
I remember somebody else in the industry telling me that the running "joke" is that if you want to get ahead, you "Have to have sex with ______". I won't say his name (it's not my place as I have no director knowledge), but ever single board member knows his name. That shoe hasn't dropped either.
It's years after-the-fact, though. If it was in the heat of a divorce, I'd understand -- I've heard horror stories of what people will claim in divorce (including a women who claimed her ex was sexually abusing his daughter -- just to stick it to him and get custody for sure).
Maybe this is why SMG has avoided him since. Just speculating.
Maybe this is why SMG has avoided him since. Just speculating.
That could be true, but even years later some people can still hold grudges. It could be true, but I still find myself a bit doubtful when only one person, who is not exactly an unbiased source, makes the accusation.
I more or less feel the same way about Johnny Depp, one ex says he was abusive, but pretty much every other person who knows him, even other exes say it isn't true, and yet people are still throwing a shit fit over Crimes of Grindlewald.
I more or less feel the same way about Johnny Depp, one ex says he was abusive, but pretty much every other person who knows him, even other exes say it isn't true, and yet people are still throwing a shit fit over Crimes of Grindlewald.
I'm rather hoping it doesn't die down, or at least the effects are lasting. That may be over optimistic and naive but even to someone not involved in the industry it's seemed obvious for years that giving up control of your own body is a prerequisite of surviving in the business.
If this damages the entertainment industry in the short term
it isn't worth protecting on those terms, I don't want to watch a program thinking someone on that screen had to sleep with a producer, have someone force themself on them or coerce them into real life acts or on screen scenes they were uncomfortable with. My entertainment simply isn't worth that price.
I read the open letter that the former Mrs. Whedon wrote. It didn't make any mention that he forced any women to do anything, nor that he specifically employed any "casting couch" techniques. It mentions that he had affairs "with his actresses, coworkers, fans and friends" but doesn't mention any quid pro quo, nor anything inappropriate other than the fact that he was married at the time and hid all of this information from his wife. The only thing in the letter that really paints him as a "bad feminist" is that he used his well-known feminism as a shield to deflect her completely justified suspicions that any of his close relationships to these women crossed the line into infidelity or adultery. His behavior is an abhorrent betrayal to a woman who seemed quite supportive of his career. But, based on these accusations, he doesn't deserve to be lumped in with the Harvey Weinsteins & Kevin Spaceys of the world.
Meanwhile, there's this quote: “When I was running ‘Buffy,’ I was surrounded by beautiful, needy, aggressive young women." It reminds me of something that James Marsters said at Phoenix Comicon about 8 years ago. (Or was it Nicholas Brendon? Either way.) He said that the problem with a young cast like Buffy is that a lot of actors come from a broken home, so they end up looking for fulfillment in inappropriate places and think that fame will fill that missing piece in their lives. Makes me wonder if he was aware of anything specific.
Meanwhile, I doubt that this will have any impact on whether he gets to direct Batgirl because I think that DC is in such shambles that Batgirl probably won't happen at all.
Meanwhile, there's this quote: “When I was running ‘Buffy,’ I was surrounded by beautiful, needy, aggressive young women." It reminds me of something that James Marsters said at Phoenix Comicon about 8 years ago. (Or was it Nicholas Brendon? Either way.) He said that the problem with a young cast like Buffy is that a lot of actors come from a broken home, so they end up looking for fulfillment in inappropriate places and think that fame will fill that missing piece in their lives. Makes me wonder if he was aware of anything specific.
Meanwhile, I doubt that this will have any impact on whether he gets to direct Batgirl because I think that DC is in such shambles that Batgirl probably won't happen at all.
I said it implies inappropriate casting couch situations, the letter even claims Joss himslf said that as a powerful producer it would be inappropriate for him to sleep with the young actresses he was constantly around, and then he slept with them anyway right from the start of Buffy.
Same reason why age of consent is different for employers/employees teachers/students than it is for two people with no position of economic or authority over the other.
Same reason why age of consent is different for employers/employees teachers/students than it is for two people with no position of economic or authority over the other.
This, even if we accept he did in no way directly coerce anyone it doesn't change the power imbalance he clearly repeatedly took advantage of.
If I have an affair and sleep with someone other than my wife, I'm a shitbag.
If I have an affair and sleep with a patient I'm a predatory shitbag, even if she sought the relationship out.
That's the fundamental difference, when someone is in such a position of power direct coercion is not needed, the very fact they abused that position to meet their own needs is sufficient.
I don't believe for a second he didn't grasp the concept that these young women would likely not have been interested or willing if he had been the janitor rather than the producer, that there was a fair chance they were sleeping with him because they already had a preconceived idea that was what they were supposed to do, an idea any decent person would have persuaded them against rather than indulging himself.
Thanks for more eloquently expressing that. I couldn't find the proper words.
To me, if a person pressures a subordinate for sex, threatens a person's job, or additional harassing tactics, or physically attacks a person, that is grounds for a lawsuit or even criminal prosecution. However, just having an affair with a subordinate, though inadvisable and just plain stupid these days, does not by itself necessarily constitute sexual harassment.
In a situation where a person is required to have sex with another in order to be hired for a job, that is wrong and should be dealt with.
No doubt some of the women Whedon allegedly had affairs with did it hoping for a break in the business, using the power they did have to get what they wanted, and some probably did it simply because he was a famous guy. This is bad behavior, especially if he was married, but not Harvey Weinstein or some others.
Similar threads
