What is your opinion of season 3 as a whole?

[gabby1701]

Oh please no! La'an deserves so much better than being killed off for Spock's character growth or being killed at all. For what it's worth, I don't think that they will do this. We've established that they start and end relationships quickly so I doubt that they'll suddenly decide that La'an and Spock need to stick. They've really hit us over the head with the idea that they're casual and established that La'an's bot too happy. They were in much deeper with Chapel and they backed out of it. I'm sure they'll feel free to back out of La'an as well.

Christina Chong and Ethan Peck have said that Spock's transition to Leonard Nimoy's Spock is happening in Season 4. Chong is in Season 4 an

I was going to say not to listen or care much about the actors, the actors will say anything to keep fans calm but what we see is different on tv.

be that as it may, there needs to be more weight in this romances. so they need to up the stakes with laan/spock. I vote for laan dying since she does not appear in TOS, the show has to get rid of ortega and laan at some point so they have to come up with a reason to get rid of them.

crazy since I am more curious as to how they will write off laan and ortega more than Pike's accident and this is because the writers already abused the pike accident story by discovery season 2 because they had nothing to write about. Pike knowing his dark fate before it happened was even a bigger mistake than the spock/chapel romance. I find it odd that this nu trek show are meant to be prequels but they spend some of their time re writing the entire series that goes against canon.

George Lucas star wars prequels is not even this bad when matching it up to the original trilogy.

Non canon trek expanded universe, Spock married Savik in the books and she was more of his match. they made a good vulcan pair and their romance worked within those vulcan custom we see in star trek voyager.

it seem just awful wish thinking from the spock/chapel shippers that only have a thing for them in SNW because the writers shoved them down our throats, to now try and again force this pairing on us trek fans that has been here for more than 30-60 years,like they have not pissed off the fan base long enough.

TOS Chapel is a shell of herself compared to what we see in SNW. there is nothing about tos chapel that is appealing. the character even fades into oblivion by the movies, why again do people what to dig this woman up and demand she and spock marry in the future because of some awfully written feminist fantasy that SNW gave us about the character that was based on lies cough cough retcons

Spock in TOS had gone to 79 episode and 6 movies not carrying a darm about this woman.he is even more likely to marry lelia in the future than chapel,

It the liberal trek world, It is also more likely that kirk and spock are the one that got secretly married and even I think that is far fetched but this is just how much many hate the direction they went with spock/chapel on this show.

The writers can have a redemption arc for spock/chapel if they do better with laan/spock even though they are just as ridiculous as a couple since she is linked to Khan and Spock in TOS have never heard of the name Khan before Khan. he had to look it up in TOS.

 

[ILovePuppies]

I was going to say not to listen or care much about the actors, the actors will say anything to keep fans calm but what we see is different on tv.

be that as it may, there needs to be more weight in this romances. so they need to up the stakes with laan/spock. I vote for laan dying since she does not appear in TOS, they show has to get rid of ortega and laan at some point so they have to come up with a reason to get rid of them.

Why do they need to up the stakes? They've had the couple destined for commitment and split apart by cruel fate in Batel and Pike. Why can't this be what the showrunners said it was and what they've shown us on screen - something casual which makes them feel good until it doesn't work anymore. I've explained why I think that they're unlikely to kill La'an. Her death wouldn't explain why both Kirk and Spock never mention her anymore than an easy breakup.

crazy since I am more curious as to how they will write off laan and ortega more than Pike's accident and this is because the writers already abused the pike accident by discovery season 2 because they had nothing to write about. Pike knowing his dark fate before it happened was even a bigger mistake than the spock/chapel romance. I find it odd that this nu trek show are meant to be prequels but they spend some of their time re writing the series.

They can both have happy endings. They can get promoted and serve on different ships. I would expect that the showrunners would be hoping that they could guest start on Year One if they get the show. Everyone knows Pike's fate so it was not a bad idea to clue the character in on the same. A challenge of prequels is that we all know what's coming. I don't think that this abusing anything.

Non canon trek expanded universe, Spock married Savik in the books and she was more of his match. they made a good vulcan pair and their romance worked within those vulcan custom we see in star trek voyager.

Yes that's what happened in the books. It never made it to screens. Saavik was so much younger that I always found it a little creepy. It never made it to screens so the writers won't be bound by this.

it seem just awful wish thinking from the spock/chapel shippers that only have a thing for them in SNW because the writers demand that we do, to now try and again force this pairing on us trek fans that has been here for more than 30-60 years,like they have not pissed off the fan base long enough.

TOS Chapel is a shell of herself compared to what we see in SNW. the character even fades into oblivion by the movies, why again do people what to dig this woman up and demand she and spock marry in the future because of some awfully written feminist fantasy that SNW gave us about the character that was based on lies cough cough retcons

Spock in TOS had gone to 79 episode and 6 movies not carrying a darm about this woman.he is even more likely to marry lelia in the future than chapel,

We might have to agree to disagree. I think that SNW Chapel was excellent in Season 1 and 2. I don't understand how she's a shell of herself. In TOS she has some sass but has limited skills, is very emotional and has limited autonomy. SNW Chapel is bright, vivacious and independent. I was disappointed that we lost some of this in season 3. I think that Jess Bush was a little robbed this season. All of her scenes revolved around romance and mostly with Korby who is okay but didn't light up the screen. I know that some people think that Chapel is overused but I think Jess Bush is excellent needs more to do. She's a breath of fresh air.

The writers can have a redemption arc for spock/chapel if they do better with laan/spock even though they are just as ridiculous as a couple since she is linked to Khan and Spock in TOS have never heard of the name Khan before Khan. he had to look it up in tos

I don't think they've used the Khan connection very well but I don't think it's particularly inconsistent with TOS (I know you'll disagree). The lack of a mention makes me think it's more likely that Spock and La'an have broken up relatively easily and in Season 4. Perhaps a lot of time has just passed and they don't particularly think of her because she became a friend? There wasn't a lot of time for chat in Space Seed and they didn't recognise Khan himself. I agree that it's not a perfect match up and it would have just been easier to giver La'an a different name but I don't think it's completely impossible.

 

[Miami Vice Admiral]

Admittedly I haven’t read every post here but the pattern seems to be a lot of people that’s favorite Star Trek series is TOS are enjoying it. However, my favorite series is TOS but I am positively struggling to enjoy SNW. Primarily I wish it was more serious and I don’t buy any of the TOS character recasts.

I agree with many others that it makes me view JJ Trek in a better light but I think that’s partially due to it being in an alternate timeline, so, I can more easily accept character inconsistencies. I so badly don’t want to be the old man that says, “They’re not interpreting the characters like I do so it’s bad” but they’re not interpreting the characters like I do so it’s bad.

I’m really hoping we’ll see some more serious Kirk moving forward. The show seems to be focusing more on his jovial side but it’s missing his intensity seen in TOS.

 

[ILovePuppies]

Admittedly I haven’t read every post here but the pattern seems to be a lot of people that’s favorite Star Trek series is TOS are enjoying it. However, my favorite series is TOS but I am positively struggling to enjoy SNW. Primarily I wish it was more serious and I don’t buy any of the TOS character recasts.

That's interesting. I'd be curious to know if that does separate those who liked it from those who didn't. My favourite series is Voyager (which does not appear to be very popular in this place). Did you enjoy any of the seasons of SNW? Or DISCO? I haven't particularly liked Weasly's Kirk. I don't get the Kirk confidence and swagger off him. I was suprised when they added the Carol and David thing in. My interpretation was that he didn't know in the movies. Ironically I would find Kirk more beliavable if he was the Lothario who had a few different woman. Dedication to situation that's not making him happy feels a bit odd for Kirk.

I really liked most of the portrayals in Season 1 and 2 but it's a hard show to like if you didn't. Mount has the Shatner swagger! Peck and Bush nailed it in Season 1 and 2 for me and Peck had a tough job with the role of Spock. He was just emotional enough in Season 1 to be a younger version. The wheels came off in Season 3 here. Everyone else felt fine and Erica was a particularly good new addition.

I agree with many others that it makes me view JJ Trek in a better light but I think that’s partially due to it being in an alternate timeline, so, I can more easily accept character inconsistencies. I so badly don’t want to be the old man that says, “They’re not interpreting the characters like I do so it’s bad” but they’re not interpreting the characters like I do so it’s bad.

Yes, it's making me appreciate that it's harder than it looked to get right. JJ's Trek had too much action for me and it suffered from the over reliance on special effects. How it is possible that the ship always cracked apart into a death trap that Kirk had to fight on to save everyone? It felt like a Marvel movie which SNW has avoided.

If you don't like an interpretation then it's going to ruin it for sure. You just can't get into in.

I’m really hoping we’ll see some more serious Kirk moving forward. The show seems to be focusing more on his jovial side but it’s missing his intensity seen in TOS.

I'm not sure that the showrunners would agree. I think that Sehlat was Kirk at his most serious. I think that Paul Wesley just has a non serious vibe to him. It's hard for Weasly because I think that Mount has nailed the updated, modern Kirk in the form of Pike. He's most of the things I would have looked for in Kirk. I would like them to use Kirk a bit less in Season 4 but it sounds like they're going to ramp up. They've mentioned that they are keen on the idea of some jealousy between Spock and Kirk in relation to La'an. This idea should be on the cutting room floor if you ask me. I would prefer to enjoy Anson's remaining time.

 

[Tallguy]

Saavik was so much younger that I always found it a little creepy.

What about Sarek and Amanda? Or whatever his second wife's name was?

Now "according to many backstories Spock raised Saavik from a child made it more than a little creepy" is a totally acceptable answer.

 

[gabby1701]

Why do they need to up the stakes? They've had the couple destined for commitment and split apart by cruel fate in Batel and Pike. Why can't this be what the showrunners said it was and what they've shown us on screen - something casual which makes them feel good until it doesn't work anymore. I've explained why I think that they're unlikely to kill La'an. Her death wouldn't explain why both Kirk and Spock never mention her anymore than an easy breakup.



They can both have happy endings. They can get promoted and serve on different ships. I would expect that the showrunners would be hoping that they could guest start on Year One if they get the show. Everyone knows Pike's fate so it was not a bad idea to clue the character in on the same. A challenge of prequels is that we all know what's coming. I don't think that this abusing anything.



Yes that's what happened in the books. It never made it to screens. Saavik was so much younger that I always found it a little creepy. It never made it to screens so the writers won't be bound by this.



We might have to agree to disagree. I think that SNW Chapel was excellent in Season 1 and 2. I don't understand how she's a shell of herself. In TOS she has some sass but has limited skills, is very emotional and has limited autonomy. SNW Chapel is bright, vivacious and independent. I was disappointed that we lost some of this in season 3. I think that Jess Bush was a little robbed this season. All of her scenes revolved around romance and mostly with Korby who is okay but didn't light up the screen. I know that some people think that Chapel is overused but I think Jess Bush is excellent needs more to do. She's a breath of fresh air.



I don't think they've used the Khan connection very well but I don't think it's particularly inconsistent with TOS (I know you'll disagree). The lack of a mention makes me think it's more likely that Spock and La'an have broken up relatively easily and in Season 4. Perhaps a lot of time has just passed and they don't particularly think of her because she became a friend? There wasn't a lot of time for chat in Space Seed and they didn't recognise Khan himself. I agree that it's not a perfect match up and it would have just been easier to giver La'an a different name but I don't think it's completely impossible.

SNW Chapel has some sass. you mean Uhura right? TOS uhura was the one with the sass. the sass trait that was associated with the iconic black character they gave to the another female character who was considered a mediocre character in TOS?

I need to give a social commentary on this series and some reactions

I say this as a black person from a black point of view that may be foreign to some, I think snw chapel is one of those characters that is the best example of white blonde pretty privilege. I had to listen to all the michael Burnham complaints and yes, michael has problems that I criticise but she was not as bad in characzation as chapel, why people want to die on the hill defending anything and everything about SNW chapel, really exposed a lot to me as a black star trek fan. SNW Chapel can do no wrong here.

Even Raffi Musiker from Picard was no where as defended as SNW Chapel and she did not even pull some of the crap that chapel pulls in season 3. Raffi was trashed constantly by fans, many saw her as one of the most annoying characters of all time in trek lore and Raffi did have

1. truma and even a difficult relationship with her son.

2. she struggled with alcohol and drug addiction, which is actually a real thing than boyfriend issues.

3. she had more going for her, with her relationship with 7 of 9 that was some-what healthy compared to chapel/spock.

the odersity that some even say Michael and Book, an African American flag ship couple was bad, boring and unnecessary while coming up with strange excuses for the other flag ship couple in SNW S/C is crazier.

End of my social commentary

They need to up the stakes the make the story better. buffy killing angel or titanic jack dying and rose surviving. something got to give. they can not just do this sex buddies things forever with spock/laan, it is boring.

I am not familiar with the fate of Pike but that accident thing was just awful. it was a bad fate. I do think it was a big mistake the nu shows even brought it up before it happened because now the stakes are a lot lower both for pike and the audience.

I think when it comes to books Spock/Savik was a thing also Spock and Zarabeth resurfaced in the books. spock/zarabeth even have a son called Zar.

I only know Chapel is overused because A.I told me, but the fact that she is overused means the character is doing more than she should and I have explained this many times, she had a wide range of skills sets that is unrealistic, which does not make the character any good. Una feels like background character next to Chapel but yet, you want us to go another round of love sick puppy spock and dominance chapel when both characters are already over used.

 

[Miami Vice Admiral]

That's interesting. I'd be curious to know if that does separate those who liked it from those who didn't. My favourite series is Voyager (which does not appear to be very popular in this place). Did you enjoy any of the seasons of SNW? Or DISCO?

I enjoyed the first season of SNW and tolerated the second. Truthfully the episode where they made Spock a moody teenager was what started the downfall of my enjoyment. That really blew my view of Peck’s Spock. I tolerated Discovery but I dropped out in the last season when they did Star Wars speeder action. I’ve heard it’s the best season though so I’ll probably have to go back eventually.

I was suprised when they added the Carol and David thing in. My interpretation was that he didn't know in the movies. Ironically I would find Kirk more beliavable if he was the Lothario who had a few different woman. Dedication to situation that's not making him happy feels a bit odd for Kirk.

I could go either way whether he knew or not.
I pictured that whether he knew or not she broke it off with him either before or shortly after David was born so he definitely would not be in a relationship with her at this time. My interpretation of Kirk is that he’s not a Lothario but he will use sex as a weapon (Pat Benatar Style) and that his heart gets attached really fast but he can’t leave his one true love, the Enterprise.

I really liked most of the portrayals in Season 1 and 2 but it's a hard show to like if you didn't. Mount has the Shatner swagger!

Love Mount, was really excited for him to come in. I feel he has been criminally underused. He seems to have nothing more to do but say one liners in most episodes.

I'm not sure that the showrunners would agree. I think that Sehlat was Kirk at his most serious. I think that Paul Wesley just has a non serious vibe to him. It's hard for Weasly because I think that Mount has nailed the updated, modern Kirk in the form of Pike. He's most of the things I would have looked for in Kirk. I would like them to use Kirk a bit less in Season 4 but it sounds like they're going to ramp up. They've mentioned that they are keen on the idea of some jealousy between Spock and Kirk in relation to La'an. This idea should be on the cutting room floor if you ask me. I would prefer to enjoy Anson's remaining time.

Agreed about Wesley’s vibe. If he wasn’t playing Captain Kirk and was just some other officer I think I’d enjoy his appearances a lot. Also, I think it would’ve been really interesting to have a young Kirk that’s super serious to begin but gains more swagger and humor as he climbs the ranks, meets the TOS characters, and has various romances. IMHO that’s how I picture his arc as a young man based on how they describe his past in TOS.

Definitely agree about using him less. I will be very frustrated if they do the “Year one” show and there’s not big changes. Also I dread the La’an love triangle. I wish they hadn’t put her with Spock, she was my highlight character before that.

 

[Pauln6]

TOS Chapel is a shell of herself compared to what we see in SNW. there is nothing about tos chapel that is appealing. the character even fades into oblivion by the movies, why again do people what to dig this woman up and demand she and spock marry in the future because of some awfully written feminist fantasy that SNW gave us about the character that was based on lies cough cough retcons

I agree that TOS Chapel was generally a shell compared to SNW Chapel. I admit, I thought there was way more to work with using Rand but it was clear in season one that Bush had watched TOS. Like with Chris Pine's Kirk performance, there were moments where you could see Barrett's mannerisms. I cheered the first time she zonked someone with a hypospray.

But TOS Chapel wasn't completely devoid of personality either:

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It's clear that the writers built on these crumbs. She also played a more prominent role in TAS.

Barrett stepped away as Chapel in solidarity when Roddenberry was nudged out but there were usually plans to include her in most of the movies, even if they were abandoned sometimes. I believe they made a uniform for her in TWoK. Her absence in Star Trek VI was a disappointment to me. I have a soft spot for Chapel and would have liked to see Barrett's signature in the end credits.

Where we do agree is that their love of Bush (and she is adorable) means they've thrust her into the centre of story situations on the ship where Chapel should have been on the periphery. I love the connection she has with Joseph and their shared trauma but I hated where she was using martial arts instead of just providing support to him in a fight. She's a lover and a lab rat, not a fighter. She's not even had Starfleet training.

It does feel like the triumvirate in SNW is Pike, Spock, and Chapel, although La'an is chasing third position as the Spock romance goes off the boil. I don't view that as a bad thing but I hope we get to see more Una and M'Benga on landing parties next year, and keep Bush more for lab work and archeology alongside Sam.

There are just too many characters to develop fully in 10 episodes, especially when you look at how 90s Trek squandered some characters with twice that episode count.

 

[gabby1701]

I agree that TOS Chapel was generally a shell compared to SNW Chapel. I admit, I thought there was way more to work with using Rand but it was clear in season one that Bush had watched TOS. Like with Chris Pine's Kirk performance, there were moments where you could see Barrett's mannerisms. I cheered the first time she zonked someone with a hypospray.

But TOS Chapel wasn't completely devoid of personality either:

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Accept third party cookies

It's clear that the writers built on these crumbs. She also played a more prominent role in TAS.

Barrett stepped away as Chapel in solidarity when Roddenberry was nudged out but there were usually plans to include her in most of the movies, even if they were abandoned sometimes. I believe they made a uniform for her in TWoK. Her absence in Star Trek VI was a disappointment to me. I have a soft spot for Chapel and would have liked to see Barrett's signature in the end credits.

Where we do agree is that their love of Bush (and she is adorable) means they've thrust her into the centre of story situations on the ship where Chapel should have been on the periphery. I love the connection she has with Joseph and their shared trauma but I hated where she was using martial arts instead of just providing support to him in a fight. She's a lover and a lab rat, not a fighter. She's not even had Starfleet training.

It does feel like the triumvirate in SNW is Pike, Spock, and Chapel, although La'an is chasing third position as the Spock romance goes off the boil. I don't view that as a bad thing but I hope we get to see more Una and M'Benga on landing parties next year, and keep Bush more for lab work and archeology alongside Sam.

There are just too many characters to develop fully in 10 episodes, especially when you look at how 90s Trek squandered some characters with twice that episode count.

yes I was going to post that 4 minute chapel video because it is infamous and some one made it to counter the fact that she is known in the lore to be this card board character. I think even Jess Bush said years ago that she is aware of how Chapel is perceived as this one note character and she wants to do her own twist.

I think Jess Bush did her home work for the role and did what she was hired to do as an actress, which is to help re write the character's history completely.

You need not to make a video like that for Uhura because Uhura speaks for herself in the show, that is the difference. Uhura had way more sass and was a more lively and even funnier in personality.

As President lincoln said about Uhura -She was charming.

 

[Miami Vice Admiral]

As President lincoln said about Uhura -She was charming.

Had me sweating for a second reading this line

 

[Tallguy]

Had me sweating for a second reading this line

In our century we haven't learned to not fear words I guess.

 

[fireproof78]

In our century we haven't learned to not fear words I guess.

No. Words are now violence.

TOS was ahead of its time with that one.

 

[gabby1701]

In our century we haven't learned to not fear words I guess.

Yes, I left out the last part on purpose I call that word the sugar coated version of the N word.

but this was the point of star trek... kind off, that it was in the future so humans would have evolved beyond prejudice or derogatory names even though Lincoln in that context was not been derogatory in a way that seem malicious.

he was actually just complimenting uhura as a beautiful black woman since he says this as she walks by and he sees her for the first time.

Also more importantly, Lincoln is even more impressed with her intelligence when she took no offence to that term. she was indeed charming.

I think that scene show cased classic star trek at it's best in how they can portray female characters as having beauty, brains and a cool personality. TOS Uhura nailed it all in one take.

but but but TOS is so dated with women. let make them gods in SNW and give them skill sets they are not meant to have because TOS is so bad with women with no redeeming quality. this is what snw seems to imply and that feels off.

 

[Pauln6]

yes I was going to post that 4 minute chapel video because it is infamous and some one made it to counter the fact that she is known in the lore to be this card board character. I think even Jess Bush said years ago that she is aware of how Chapel is perceived as this one note character and she wants to do her own twist.

I think Jess Bush did her home work for the role and did what she was hired to do as an actress, which is to help re write the character's history completely.

You need not to make a video like that for Uhura because Uhura speaks for herself in the show, that is the difference. Uhura had way more sass and was a more lively and even funnier in personality.

As President lincoln said about Uhura -She was charming.

Nichols had a magnetism that was inherent. She used her dancer's poise to project her presence even when she wasn't speaking. That said, most of her best episodes were in the first half of season one. Much of her later dialogue was rather uninspiring. She should have been at a lot more officer briefings.

Gooding has done a great job of dialling back the confidence to give the character space to grow.

 

[fireproof78]

but but but TOS is so dated with women. let make them gods in SNW and give them skill sets they are not meant to have because TOS is so bad with women with no redeeming quality. this is what snw seems to imply and that feels off.

They are hardly gods. Cross trained, the best of the best to serve aboard a starship, a very special class of ship, only 12 like her. I would expect multiple competencies not less.

 

[The Gatekeeper]

Is the same thing.

It's not. Saying he vanished or was erased implies the writers simply forgot the character existed and stopped acknowledging him. Which they didn't. He was killed. If you're going to complain about how this show is treating its men, at least try to get the terminology right.

what of the episode in season 1 where michael is shown to be mentally stronger than sarek in a vulcan mind fight.

Wut? That literally never happened.

 

[V'Lias]

he show has to get rid of ortega and laan at some point so they have to come up with a reason to get rid of them.

La'An transfers to a new ship along with Una, and Ortegas takes a position as chief test pilot somewhere. I'll never understand the propensity of shows to write off characters by killing them, especially when they have to resort to all sorts of shenanigans when they want to bring them back later on!

 

[Laura Cynthia Chambers]

To be fair, sci fi and fantasy have more in-universe believable "dead until not" tricks up their sleeves than other shows can realistically have. Soap operas try hard, though.