What is THE Worst continuity error in Trek history..?!

[fireproof78]

James R. Kirk is still the worst.

Don't worry. It just is in an alternate reality

 

[eyeresist]

Also, cloaking tech (and holodeck tech) show up in ENT way to early, in my opinion. I was generally satisfied with how they presented technology, especially with the ship, but some alien technology just felt like it was shoehorned in.

Yeah, I thought the Suliban pod ships were actually pretty cool, but they shouldn't have let Starfleet get their hands on one.

I guess one could argue that after the temporal war was grandfathered out of existence in Storm Front, the Suliban's enhanced tech was erased from history. Problem is that no-one's memory of those events was altered.

 

[suarezguy]

The Trills from "The Host" and Deep Space Nine being so different was a big one but both versions were good so not really a bad one .

First contact with the Klingons not being disastrous was a pretty big change for the worse.

 

[The Wormhole]

First contact with the Klingons not being disastrous was a pretty big change for the worse.

The writer of the TNG episode (who actually posts on this forum) has stated that what we saw in Broken Bow qualifies as "disastrous."

 

[T'Girl]

How so? The farmer in the pilot defended his property in a honorable way, hardly "disastrous."

 

[Tim Thomason]

Here's the "infamous" line from First Contact (the episode):

Chancellor, there is no starship mission more dangerous than that of first contact. We never know what we will face when we open the door on a new world, how we will be greeted, what exactly the dangers will be. Centuries ago, a disastrous contact with the Klingon Empire led to decades of war. It was decided then we would do surveillance before making contact. It was a controversial decision. I believe it prevented more problems than it created.

I'm not sure what Picard's talking about. The Klingons contacted us (albeit, inadvertently), so surveillance really wouldn't effect anything. Maybe he means Archer should have surveilled the Klingons a little longer, rather than returning them their associate.

I liked the old joke that Picard is referring to the Temporal Cold War.

 

[Nerys Myk]

How so? The farmer in the pilot defended his property in a honorable way, hardly "disastrous."

That's being a bit too literal and myopic. The disastrous part comes from Archer's actions, not Farmer Ron's

Chancellor, there is no starship mission more dangerous than that of first contact. We never know what we will face when we open the door on a new world, how we will be greeted, what exactly the dangers will be. Centuries ago, a disastrous contact with the Klingon Empire led to decades of war. It was decided then we would do surveillance before making contact. It was a controversial decision. I believe it prevented more problems than it created.

I'm not sure what Picard's talking about. The Klingons contacted us (albeit, inadvertently), so surveillance really wouldn't effect anything. Maybe he means Archer should have surveilled the Klingons a little longer, rather than returning them their associate.

I liked the old joke that Picard is referring to the Temporal Cold War.

Since, IIRC, the Federation borrowed the idea of how to handle first contacts from the Vulcans, perhaps it was the first contact between the Klingons and the Vulcans that resulted in these FC protocols.

THE UFP isn't and shouldn't be so Terracentric.

 

[T'Girl]

Centuries ago, a disastrous contact with the Klingon Empire led to decades of war.

No part of that says the contact was the one between the Humans and the Klingons.

Picard is a Federation kool-aid drinker and could be referring to the initial contact with the Klingons of any of the Federations Members.

While there was a long simmering antagonistic posture when were the Humans (or the Federation) at actual war with the Klingons for decades? FASA and Trek fans did created a four year war, but any multiple decade long war probably involved a Member prior to their membership.

 

[M.A.C.O.]

First contact with the Klingons not being disastrous was a pretty big change for the worse.

The writer of the TNG episode (who actually posts on this forum) has stated that what we saw in Broken Bow qualifies as "disastrous."

Chancellor, there is no starship mission more dangerous than that of first contact. We never know what we will face when we open the door on a new world, how we will be greeted, what exactly the dangers will be. Centuries ago, a disastrous contact with the Klingon Empire led to decades of war. It was decided then we would do surveillance before making contact. It was a controversial decision. I believe it prevented more problems than it created.

I'm not sure what Picard's talking about. The Klingons contacted us (albeit, inadvertently), so surveillance really wouldn't effect anything. Maybe he means Archer should have surveilled the Klingons a little longer, rather than returning them their associate.

I liked the old joke that Picard is referring to the Temporal Cold War.

Since, IIRC, the Federation borrowed the idea of how to handle first contacts from the Vulcans, perhaps it was the first contact between the Klingons and the Vulcans that resulted in these FC protocols.

THE UFP isn't and shouldn't be so Terracentric.

I brought this up in an old thread years ago. What if the FC with the Klingons Picard references is the original, and the FC we saw in Broken Bow was a change caused by the TCW?

We had previously never heard of the Suliban and they were on a mission (at the time in Broken Bow) for Future Guy. Future Guy who was intent on undermining the timeline and changing the future in his favor.


That's how I reconciled the two discrepencies. With all the time travel/timeline shennanigans happening on ENT and B&B getting cute with the continuity in several places; Ferengi, Borg, cloaks on Romulan ships, Klingon ridges, Pa'nar Syndrome etc. My explanation makes about as much sense as theirs.

Also, I liked the idea of ENT being a show in a seperate timeline created from the Borg's attempt to change the future in FC the movie. ENT also works better as a prequel to the ST09 reboot. Instead of a prequel to TOS, IMO.

 

[T'Girl]

THE UFP isn't and shouldn't be so Terracentric.

Perhaps it shouldn't be, but it pretty obvious that it is.

If Earth had a disastrous first contact with the Klingons (prior to the creation of the Federation?) in a alternate timeline that resulted in decades of war, it's difficult to see how we would have survived.

 

[The Wormhole]

That's how I reconciled the two discrepencies. With all the time travel/timeline shennanigans happening on ENT and B&B getting cute with the continuity in several places; Ferengi, Borg, cloaks on Romulan ships, Klingon ridges, Pa'nar Syndrome etc. My explanation makes about as much sense as theirs.

Klingon ridges were already a problem long before Enterprise was even conceived. Klingons from ancient times seen throughout the 24th century shows were shown with ridges, including Kahless (who had already been seen without ridges in TOS) and the mythological figures on the Barge of the Dead. So Enterprise showing ridged Klingons actually upholds continuity rather than contradicting it. At the very least, TNG was the one that violated continuity here with ridged Kahless.

Pa'nar Syndrome got explained in season 4 so what's the issue here?

Also, I liked the idea of ENT being a show in a seperate timeline created from the Borg's attempt to change the future in FC the movie. ENT also works better as a prequel to the ST09 reboot. Instead of a prequel to TOS, IMO.

That was really just an after the fact rationalization pitched by Braga at the end of season 2 when it became clear the continuity errors were stacking up. Also, it was likely meant to create ambiguity an a sense that anything could happen in the Xindi story coming up in season 3. It was clear Manny Coto and the writers of season 4 disregarded it and considered themselves to be writing a proper prequel to TOS.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

At the very least, TNG was the one that violated continuity here with ridged Kahless.

Not necessarily. You'll notice that the only time we ever see Kahless without ridges was in that one TOS episode when the image of him was drawn from Kirk's mind. Kirk had never met a Klingon with ridges, so he thought all Klingons were ridge-less. That's why we saw Kahless the way we did in TOS.

 

[The Wormhole]

At the very least, TNG was the one that violated continuity here with ridged Kahless.

Not necessarily. You'll notice that the only time we ever see Kahless without ridges was in that one TOS episode when the image of him was drawn from Kirk's mind. Kirk had never met a Klingon with ridges, so he thought all Klingons were ridge-less. That's why we saw Kahless the way we did in TOS.

True, but the fact they showed ridged Klingons from pre-TOS is the continuity error.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ In what way?

There was never any conclusive proof that ridged Klingons didn't exist before TOS. Like I said, the only reason we ever saw Kahless without ridges is because Kirk thought all Klingons looked that way. Which is obviously not true.

 

[Anwar]

TOS started the Ridged Klingons in the first place. The first Ridged Klingon was in TMP.

 

[Tim Thomason]

TOS started the Ridged Klingons in the first place. The first Ridged Klingon was in TMP.

And according to some, we were supposed to assume all Klingons had ridges during TOS (just that the makeup wasn't there). It was Deep Space Nine that brought us the strange dichotomy, and Enterprise decided to "solve" the apparent continuity error.

Don't get me wrong, I liked that two-parter. But I'm not sure how Bashir didn't know all about the augment virus. That seems like something he should've read up on.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

A continuity error that has since been explained (as the ridged/non-ridged Klingons have) is, by definition, NO LONGER an error. Explanations are definitive.

 

[Lt. Tyler]

TOS started the Ridged Klingons in the first place. The first Ridged Klingon was in TMP.

The TOS movies started Ridged Klingons not the TOS. BUT, If you take every time in the TOS they mentioned time frames such as what century they were in (200 years, 2 centuries that have gone by since 1996 " Space Seed", 3 centuries when Lincoln was shot, "The Savage Curtain, the poem in Where No Man Has Gone Before Mitchell stated 200 years since it was written and also the date 1996) the TOS takes place in the 22nd century not the 23rd century. Star Trek The Motion Picture as well as all of the other the TOS movies take place in the 23rd century. So different universes and timelines between the TOS and the TOS movies. Therefore, the Klingons in the TOS universe always had smooth foreheads and the universe that the TOS movies take place the Klingons obviously have only ever had ridged Klingons.

 

[eyeresist]

Centuries ago, a disastrous contact with the Klingon Empire led to decades of war.

No part of that says the contact was the one between the Humans and the Klingons.

Picard is a Federation kool-aid drinker and could be referring to the initial contact with the Klingons of any of the Federations Members.

That is a good point. If he was referring to Earth or the Federation, Picard would have been specific: "OUR first contact", "the FEDERATION'S first contact" or "EARTH'S first contact", not "A contact". Maybe he was referring to Vulcan's first contact with Klingons?

 

[M.A.C.O.]

That's how I reconciled the two discrepencies. With all the time travel/timeline shennanigans happening on ENT and B&B getting cute with the continuity in several places; Ferengi, Borg, cloaks on Romulan ships, Klingon ridges, Pa'nar Syndrome etc. My explanation makes about as much sense as theirs.

Klingon ridges were already a problem long before Enterprise was even conceived. Klingons from ancient times seen throughout the 24th century shows were shown with ridges, including Kahless (who had already been seen without ridges in TOS) and the mythological figures on the Barge of the Dead. So Enterprise showing ridged Klingons actually upholds continuity rather than contradicting it. At the very least, TNG was the one that violated continuity here with ridged Kahless.

I don't really care about the Klingon Ridges, I just felt they didn't need to contrive an arc about an Augment Virus, created from Khan's blood (Khan's magic blood again!), and use that as the vechile to explain ridgeless Klingons.

Pa'nar Syndrome got explained in season 4 so what's the issue here?

The issue is that Pa'nar Syndrome exists at all. I mean, what the hell were B&B thinking? They took an iconic attribute of Spock and all Vulcans and attaching to the canon, that performing this act can give you "mind AIDS".

I know UPN asked them to do an episode about HIV/AIDS during the month this episode initially came out in, but I think B&B didn't execute the metaphor very well, and the Vulcan Mind Meld/Pa'nar syndrome thing seemed mean and tone deaf. We have T'Pol diagnosed with a taboo disease (allegory for AIDS), and yet we have a subplot with one of Phlox's wives trying to bump uglies with Trip. Recall that Denobulans are a polyamorous/polygamous species, and how do people in our world contract HIV/AIDS? By being in polyamorous relationships with multiple people.

I struggle to comprehend what they were trying to say, because the plot and subplot were at cross purposes. They did the same thing on VOY, with the episode The Disease. Which dealt with Harry Kim receiving an STD from a member of another species. The issue was handled clumsy there too.

I just don't think they had a handle on sex or the complicated nature of the consequences of it.

Also, I liked the idea of ENT being a show in a seperate timeline created from the Borg's attempt to change the future in FC the movie. ENT also works better as a prequel to the ST09 reboot. Instead of a prequel to TOS, IMO.

That was really just an after the fact rationalization pitched by Braga at the end of season 2 when it became clear the continuity errors were stacking up. Also, it was likely meant to create ambiguity an a sense that anything could happen in the Xindi story coming up in season 3. It was clear Manny Coto and the writers of season 4 disregarded it and considered themselves to be writing a proper prequel to TOS.

Was it really? They should've gone full tilt with that. ENT was lemons, so they should make lemonade with it. Plus TOS-TNG-DS9 never showed or referenced Archer's Enterprise, and he was Earth's first deep space captain. Even the Enterprise-D computer and the guys from Temporal Investigations (DS9 Trials and Tribblations) only refer to their being 5 Enterprises previously (1701, A, B, C, D).

Now we know why that is (Prequel made after other shows have completed), but it does add an interesting dimension to the franchise. So far, ENT has had more references in ST09 and STID, than any of the previous shows and movies did. And because of the nature of time travel in ST09, only ENT is canon to the reboot verse.