Spoilers What is the connection between Doctor Soong and Khan Singh?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Charles Phipps, May 27, 2022.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Edited: I get that everyone has their opinion but it seems like CBS PR is a sore spot. Like they are calling fans liars or something...:shrug:
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2022
  2. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No, it’s not that. When DSC was originally envisioned, I think CBS wanted the link to TOS because they didn’t think their new show could stand on its own without it. I have no proof for this feeling, but I think that they didn’t have enough faith that people would sign up for CBSAA if they thought the show was a reboot rather than being connected to the ‘Prime’ universe. They also didn’t want people thinking that the show was connected to the Kelvin timeline films. So SNW is just an extension of DSC as far as the universe it takes place in, according to CBS.
     
  3. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Why would they think that it could?
     
  4. lawman

    lawman Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    Purely dictum at this point. I'll believe it when I see it on screen. (And that'd be one very substantial piece of evidence for the "it's a new timeline" camp.)

    Meanwhile, the most reasonable assumption from the scene is that the Khan Project was launched in 1996 (the date on the folder, which we already know is the date that Khan left earth), as a covert attempt to make genetically engineered humans similar to Khan. If Soong revived that research, it could logically lead to the Augment research of his descendent Arik.

    (After all, why would anybody call it the "Khan Project" before Khan was a thing? That'd be pretty arbitrary. It would be named after the guy who emerged as the most prominent figure in the Eugenics Wars.)
     
  5. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    And yet SNW seems to say the Eugenics Wars happened after the January 2021 Capital riots.
     
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  6. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And that is important...why, exactly?

    That was a highly stylized sequence that probably shouldn't be taken literally.
     
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  7. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Pike said the US Civil War lead into the Eugenics Wars.

    And the SNW producers have said they will smudge details here and there with their version of the TOS timeline.
     
  8. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Not directly. I prefer to think he was intentionally hamming it up for the audience.

    So much for the prime timeline. :sigh:
     
  9. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    It's still the prime timeline, they're jus smudging some minor details, all the series have done it.
     
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  10. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :lol: So in "Space Seed", when Spock specifically says that the Eugenics Wars happened from 1992 to 1996...he was lying?
     
  11. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    He's correct for when the show was made, as the show was created before the retcon.
     
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  12. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    That is not an answer.

    Either the Eugenics Wars ended in 1996 or they did not. One or the other. If one is right, the other is wrong. Simple as that.

    I mean, it's all one timeline....ISN'T IT?
     
  13. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Kirk is either James R. Kirk, or he isn't.

    Both are canon, one just supersedes the other in continuity.

    Spock isn't lying, just what he's saying has been superseded/retconned by later continuity. In universe he's saying whatever date they decide to narrow down to, if they do.
     
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2022
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  14. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    James R. Kirk will always be my captain.
     
  15. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    WNMHGB is a pilot episode. That explains and excuses all discontinuities.

    Mutually exclusive.

    Same diff.

    If SNW is a true prequel - if it's still the prime timeline - then logically one should be able to watch any episode of TOS in the secure knowledge that every episode of SNW has already happened. Yet with two wildly different interpretations of when the Eugenics Wars happened, this is of course not possible. They can't both be true. So, given this, how can SNW really be a prequel? How can it still be the same timeline, if major historical events such as this can be shifted about, just on a whim?
     
  16. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    They got the dates wrong.
     
  17. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Ah, but WHO did?

    Major historical events like this either ARE in a specific year or they ARE NOT in that year. They can't both be true. If one is right, the other is wrong. And thus one must be discarded from canon/continuity. So which is it?
     
  18. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I've studied enough history to know when records are inaccurate it makes firm conclusions difficult.

    Discarding lines from canon is a non-issue. James R Kirk, Vulcan conquered then not, and on and on. Never mind the misogynistic language of TOS.

    It's not that big of a deal. That the event happens is more important than dates precision.
     
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  19. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    Nope, not at all. Continuity and Canon are two different things.

    They are, from a certain point of view.
     
  20. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't agree.

    And what point of view could that possibly be?

    Either a specific event has happened which actually changed the date at which the Eugenics Wars happened (in which case SNW cannot logically be a true prequel), or not (which would require that one version be discarded as irrelevant, thus removing it from canon/continuity). So which is it? You can't have it both ways.