Spoilers What is the connection between Doctor Soong and Khan Singh?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Picard' started by Charles Phipps, May 27, 2022.

  1. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Hopefully all of it, as it is a film that has long overstayed it's welcome.

    Honestly, I wouldn't. Accepting inconsistencies is pretty much par for the course in my Trek life. Even studying history has taught me that. If pressed, I would say that people got dates wrong. Which, believe it or not, happens to people.
     
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  2. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    It’s a retcon, not a decanonzing.

    Like James R. Kirk, Kirk and Spocks various unknown family members, Picard’s backstory in Season 2
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2022
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  3. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Changing one random date Spock says hardly decanonizes Space Seed and TWOK.

    What's to explain? Spock (in Space Seed, not TWOK) says 20 something instead of 1996. Boom, done.
     
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  4. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    If you have to retcon a bunch of things to make your story fit into the larger universe, then perhaps you should have just made your story a reboot rather than shoehorning it into the past continuity.

    Except that’s not what he said. That’s just your personal head-canon changing things. Unless you’re suggesting that someone should go back and redub Nimoy’s line with a sound-alike, and then start selling TOS DVDs and BluRays with this new line of dialogue.
     
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  5. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    And people are allowed to retcon anything. Warp speed leaps immediately to mind.
     
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  6. Tuskin38

    Tuskin38 Admiral Admiral

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    The Tombstone still says James R. Kirk in the remaster even though we know that not to be true.
    This is the same thing.
     
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  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I'm sure that doesn't count. Gary was obviously trolling his friend.
     
  8. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    No, it’s not quite the same thing. James R. Kirk is from a pilot episode. Many things change from a pilot to the actual series. The date for Khan’s disappearance was established in an episode proper and a feature film. And it’s really moot anyway as the file Soong pulls out of his desk also has the 1996 date on it. It’s not an Easter egg if it corroborates both of those previous instances.
     
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  9. dupersuper

    dupersuper Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    What "bunch of stuff"? It's one random date spat out in some exposition in a script written by people who had no earthly reason to suspect the show they were working on would keep going for over 5 decades.

    And James T Kirk wasn't what was on the tombstone Gary Mitchell made...

    And that of the current producers...

    Oh, brother. Ok, how about the proper episode The Squire of Gothos that establishes TOS is set in, what, the 26th century?
     
  10. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I wasn't referring to that. As a matter of fact, I wasn't referring to anything having to do with PIC, as that show hasn't retconned anything other than the hologram of the Discoprise in season 1.

    I made that clear about the pilot episode.

    The current producers are going to dub over Spock's line in Space Seed about the 1996 date?

    It establishes no such thing. Where in TSOG does anyone say the show takes place in the 26th century?
     
  11. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I believe they are referring to this dialog:
    JAEGER: Notice the period, Captain. Nine hundred light years from Earth. It's what might be seen through a viewing scope if it were powerful enough.
    TRELANE: Ah, yes. I've been looking in on the doings on your lively little Earth.
    KIRK: Then you've been looking in on the doings nine hundred years past.
    TRELANE: Oh, really? Have I made an error in time? How fallible of me. Oh, I did so want to make you feel at home. I'm quite proud of the detail.

    Doing brief math it would put the date in the 2700s.
     
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  12. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I’m aware of the dialogue. However, none of that is concrete proof of when the show takes place.
     
  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :shrug:

    It depends on your own point of view I suppose. Unless Jaeger was just making stuff up.
     
  14. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    It's not that I think Jaeger was making stuff up. It's that that particular scriptwriter might have made an assumption about when the show takes place that was never officially approved of. That's not a retcon, that's just a snafu from that particular episode. And again, it's not like anyone actually made a clear comment that the year was 2700, or that after TSOG everyone assumed the show took place in that year. Unlike Space Seed, where Spock gives a specific date for Khan's disappearance, which was then followed up on in TWOK.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2022
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  15. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Ok, so we have dates that are inaccurate.

    I guess this is one data point that means more to others than it does to me.
     
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  16. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Or at best, very unclear.

    I didn’t bring up TSOG.
     
  17. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Then it matters more to others not you or me.

    Regardless, to me it is mutable. To others, it is not. This falls under "James R. Kirk" level of mutable. And, yes, I know, that has been addressed. But, that's me and my point of view of "hard facts" in fiction.
     
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  18. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    And that’s the great thing about fiction. I can choose to believe whatever I want, because it’s all fake. And I can equally choose to ignore other people who try to tell me how I should think.
     
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  19. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yup. And none it ultimately matters in regards to the production teams.
     
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  20. Dukhat

    Dukhat Vice Admiral Admiral

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    I never said that my personal opinion matters to them. They declare their show to be in the same universe as TOS. I disagree and believe it to be a reboot, because I trust my own eyes more than what a CBS PR person says. CBS doesn’t give a crap about my opinion, and I don’t give a crap about theirs.
     
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