Spoilers What If...? season two discussion thread

[The Nth Doctor]

I absolutely loved Kahhori and her story. As noted by Uatu, what made Kahhori so distinctive was her conviction to stay true to her nature in the face of the cruelty of evil and the riches of the good. She helped shaped not just her own world, but also helped the Mohawk descendants who benefited from the Space Stone in their Sky World. By bringing those two worlds together, she completely changed the course of history and hopefully for the better.

I love the craft and dedication and care in bringing this episode together. I'm thrilled that the showrunners wisely brought in the proper people to help shape this episode on all levels, from the writing to the music to the artwork to the acting, which helped properly represent the Mohawk people, their culture, and their history. I hope this is only just the beginning of Kahhori and her story and that we'll see more of her, not just in What If...?, but well beyond the show to further tell her story in all forms.

My only complaint about the episode, and I knew this was coming thanks to the opening credits, was the closing scene with Supreme Strange arriving to collect Kahhori for whatever greater goal that he has now (which undoubtedly will involve Captain Carter and 1602).

That's late Renaissance/early Enlightenment era, not Medieval. They're setting up an adaptation of Marvel Comics' "1602" alternate reality.

Oh, right, duh, of course. That makes much more sense. Especially considering how 1602 originated in the comic story (I mean that Peggy's arrival there is a wink to that, not as the reason for 1602's origins). I feel like a dunce for not seeing that before.

The latest episode was strange. I don’t know who that person is at all. The tesseract can give you force powers it seems

Kahhori and her story were created for this episode.

 

[FreezeC77]

Bucky was moving around pretty good for pushing 100 in that Hydro-stomper episode.

 

[Tuskin38]

Oh hey the actress who was cast as Katara in the Netflix live action Avatar TLA series, Kiawentiio, voiced Wáhta

The named Mohawk characters were voiced by Mohawk actors from Canada.

Bucky was moving around pretty good for pushing 100 in that Hydro-stomper episode.

I assumed he was still experimented on in that universe. He didn't get the full winter soldier dealeo, but maybe whatever Hydra did to him gave him some extra oomph.

 

[valkyrie013]

So she's yelling in Mohawk and she's yelling in espagnia... DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS COMING FROM MY MOUTH..

Other than that not bad.. bit over the top but good.

 

[thribs]

Yeah that was a bit confusing. I just thought they were speaking the same language until I heard “manos”. I know from American Dad that means hands.

 

[Nerys Myk]

I kind of paused when a character used the phrase "far from the bones of our ancestors".

 

[JD]

That was really cool. I love that they actually did the whole thing in Mohawk and Spanish.
I like Kahhori, and I'm glad it looks like her story isn't over.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Looks like the MCU main timeline got fricked by Odin when he banished Hela to hell.
That timeline when he gave her the Thor treatment is way better off with her in charge. XD

 

[thribs]

I’m surprised they got Cate Blanchet to come back. Shame the same couldn’t be said about Hopkins

 

[The Nth Doctor]

"I have not survived a thousand of years of war to die at the hands of foliage!"

Cate Blanchett clearly had a lot of fun returning to her role but in a completely different situation I particularly loved how witty she became in her exile, a side of her that we barely saw in Ragnarok, surprisingly. I enjoyed her path towards the light, paralleling Thor's journey but in far different way, while Odin became the villain of the piece.

However, I have to say the title of the episode is pretty misleading. Hela didn't find the Ten Rings, rather she encountered them while already possessed by Wenru. Perhaps a far better title would've been "What If...Hela Had Been Banished to Earth Instead of Hel?" or something along those lines. That would accurately set-up the story without revealing the trajectory of it which such titles as "...Found Inner Peace?" or "...Turned to the Light?"

I’m surprised they got Cate Blanchet to come back. Shame the same couldn’t be said about Hopkins

We knew in advance that Blanchett was returning but who surprised me was Idris Elba, especially since he only had a few lines. I wonder if he recorded them during his Love & Thunder cameo?

 

[FreezeC77]

Oh hey the actress who was cast as Katara in the Netflix live action Avatar TLA series, Kiawentiio, voiced Wáhta

The named Mohawk characters were voiced by Mohawk actors from Canada.


I assumed he was still experimented on in that universe. He didn't get the full winter soldier dealeo, but maybe whatever Hydra did to him gave him some extra oomph.

I thought it was pretty cool to have it in Mohawk and me not having any understanding of the language at all, but someone who watches a lot of non-English language content.... I kinda feel like the person voicing Kahhori was not as practiced in using it as some of the secondary characters. It didn't really sound as fluid when she spoke as compared to the guy she met in the "Sky World" after going through the portal.

 

[valkyrie013]

I thought it was pretty cool to have it in Mohawk and me not having any understanding of the language at all, but someone who watches a lot of non-English language content.... I kinda feel like the person voicing Kahhori was not as practiced in using it as some of the secondary characters. It didn't really sound as fluid when she spoke as compared to the guy she met in the "Sky World" after going through the portal.

So she spoke Mohawk with a Canadien accent? Something like someone who can speak spanish, but isn't there first language, so it sounds stillted or broken in places and can tell there not a native speaker, where the other supporting actors it may be there first language.

 

[CaptainWacky]

2.6 - It was good. Nice to see an original story and not just "what if movie but different character." Once again I'll praise the quality of the animation and the sequence of them destroying the slave ships was quite moving.

2.7 - Cate Blanchett was a lot of fun and said "arse" several times so this was easy to enjoy. The story and her face turn was ridiculously rushed, of course, but I'm used to that by now.

 

[JD]

I was also surprised Cate Blanchett came back, and I'm glad she did, she was great.
Pairing her up with Wenwu and sending her to Ta Lo never would have occurred to me, but I'm glad it occurred to the What If...? writers, because it really worked.
I really liked the design for the redeemed Hela at the end.

 

[Guy Gardener]

My memory reminds me that Cate was the worst part of Thor Ragnorok.

This was very different.

 

[Tuskin38]

The story and her face turn was ridiculously rushed, of course, but I'm used to that by now.

I think that's just a problem with the 30 minutes or lack of time cards, it's hard to tell how much time has passed.

 

[The Nth Doctor]

I figured going in that What If...?'s version of 1602 would be significantly different from Gaiman's original run considering its own complexities, but I was still thrown off initially by how vastly different it would be. Nonetheless, the bones of Gaiman's story were present throughout this episode, including the reveal of who the Forerunner turned out to be. Naturally I suspected Steve from the onset but I hadn't considered amnesia being part of the equation (I'm pretty sure Rojhaz didn't have it), so when Steve didn't react to Peggy's story of being from a different world, I looked elsewhere. I jumped from Scott to Loki to Bruce to even falling for the obvious red herring of Happy. I was ultimately happy and relieved that it turned out to be Steve after all, falling into 1602 because of his battle with Thanos and accidentally striking the Time Stone (duh). A far simpler origin than the one in Gaiman's story.

As for this 1602 itself, I loved the natural roles everyone fit into. In this reality Hela lead Asgard to conquering Earth (no doubt a schism of the previous episode) with Thor and Loki at her side, with our heroes equally spread out between their royal court and Steve's variation on Robin Hood (but of course!). I enjoyed Scott's witty rapport with Bucky, but I especially loved Loki's Shakespearean hamming (and clearly Hiddleston relished the opportunity, too).

Unfortunately, as has already been noted for the series in general, the story is far too truncated and we are only able to get the basic beats of it. I'm very curious to know how Ant Man technology and gamma monsters were created in this world (if I recall correctly, Gaiman's Hulk was created thanks to the rift), as well as the development of Wanda's magic. Are they all somehow connected to the Asgardians' arrival or are they more directly tied in with Steve's arrival somehow? They aren't important questions for the story to work, but I was still bummed that we didn't get even a hint to those answers.

Regardless of the truncated story, I loved the focus on Peggy's journey and how she was forced to lose Steve all over again. Hopefully (as teased by the trailers), she'll get her happy ending by the end of tomorrow's finale.

I was initially annoyed that Gaiman didn't get onscreen credit for the episode, but at least he is listed among the regular credits of "With Special Thanks To..." that always includes Lee, Kirby, etc.

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

This felt a bit like the Doctor Who Series 6 finale, where all time periods got squeezed into a single moment.

 

[Turtletrekker]

Third season confirmed.

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[The Nth Doctor]

As I said in the Marvel thread, I wonder if this means they've already done a lot of work on season three and it'll get released far quicker than season two. Fingers crossed!

Curious how Bill Foster is some kind of law enforcement officer. I wonder what that's about. And a shame Alexei doesn't sound like he's voiced by David Harbour.