What if Kahn had destroyed the Enterprise and killed Kirk?

[Tribble puncher]

I'm sure this thread has been brought up and I missed it in my search, but on the off chance that it hasn't in awhile.....Imagine an alternate Scenario where Kirks little plan to disable the Reliant fails because Khan changed the prefix code. Khan see's that the Reliant recieved a transmission with the old code and instantly realizes what Kirk attempted, so he beams Kirk over and tries a more direct approach: Starts firing potshots at the Enterprise (meant to maim, not to kill), Kirk, knowing he won't be able to save his ship if he talks, Tries to go for a weapon or get to a console to DO SOMETHING, but gets overpowered and killed by Khan after he's forced to watch his ship and crew be blown up. I'd Imagine Khan would head back to Regula I, where he'd eventually find the Transporter room with the Coordinates stored in the computer, he'd send some henchmen down in case of a trap (or that the coordinates really did lead to nowhere) and once he knew it was safe he'd capture the scientists (probably) and beam Genesis to Reliant. Now, what would happen? would Chekov and Capt. Terrell, knowing that Khan killed 100's of fellow Starfleet officers be able to fight off the ceti eels long enough to try to destroy the Reliant to Stop him? or would Khan just kill them as well? What kind of Havok would Khan cause with an undamaged Reliant and a Genesis torpedo? Would he sell it to the Romulans in exchange for a planet to rule? Would he drop it on Earth as a final F U? Would he have just flown around aimlessly untill a Federation task force hunted him down? what do you guys think?

 

[OtherGene]

Who is Kahn?

 

[Smoked Salmon]

Who is Kahn?

This sort of pedantry is what gives fans a bad name.

 

[OtherGene]

This sort of pedantry is what gives fans a bad name.

That and sanctimony. I wouldn't have noticed a one off error but Tribble puncher got the name wrong, what, eight or nine times? You'd be OK with a few paragraphs discussing the merits of Captain Krik against Captain Picrad I assume?

Personally, I think dealing with Kirk was only the first step in what Khan (or Kahn) had planned for all those years, and a fortuitous one at that. I'm quite sure his next target would be Earth as he'd want to reclaim his lands and power. However I just don't think he had the manpower to achieve it. They may have been superhumans but to take control of Earth it would still come down to his starship (which may even had ended up being the Enterprise) against the whole fleet of starships. The best he could hope for would be to detonate the Genesis device as close to Earth as possible and hope the creation of a new planet would create enough gravitational chaos to cause severe problems in our solar system.

 

[2takesfrakes]

Had Khan blown up the Enterprise and killed Kirk, along with it ... we'd never have gotten Shatner's excellent performance in TSFS, where he falls out of his seat, when he learns that David's been killed ...

 

[alensatemybuick1]

 

[Tribble puncher]

Sorry guys, I typed this out on my tablet, and it autocorrected everything. I wasn't paying attention. I corrected everything.

 

[Tribble puncher]

Sorry guys, I typed this out on a tablet without a keyboard, I guess autocorrect was changing it to "Kahn" and I didn't notice. I corrected what I could in original post. Probably best to let this thread sink into the dark murk of embarrassment now.

 

[publiusr]

Who is Kahn?

from the ninth episode of the seventh season of the mystery drama television series Pretty Little Liars,

I also remember a science fiction author or two by the same name
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Kahn

There was Herman Kahn
https://www.trekbbs.com/threads/the-wrath-of-kahn.246226/#post-9677518

And Madeline

 

[OtherGene]

Probably best to let this thread sink into the dark murk of embarrassment now.

No need to be embarrassed, it's only words on a screen, like when folk troll you over stuff. And at least I answered your post

 

[Tenacity]

Most likely without Kirk, Kahn would never have located the underground tunnel, the Genesis device, or the Genesis cave.

Actually, it was Saavik who figured out the transporter settings..

The young man murdered in the tunnel by Terrell would have lived, ultimately David would have lived.

In time Starfleet would have tracked down the Reliant and either captured it or destroyed it. Kahn's knowledge of starship warfare and tactics seemed minimal at best.

The two Marcus' and the young man would have been rescued, or they could have returned themselves to the space station through their own means.

Terrell and Chekov would have been rescued and treated.

In time the Genesis device might have been tested properly on a planet, instead of a gas cloud, what would happen then is unclear.

Where the Klingons from TSFS would fit into this ...?

They might have beat Starfleet to the research station and discovered Terrell and Chekov, neither of whom knew the location of the "Genesis Torpedo." As long as the three scientists didn't return to the station while the Klingon were there, they would be fine.

There was mention of others on the station being on vacation (?), if they returned to the station while the Klingons were there ...?

 

[Smoked Salmon]

That and sanctimony. I wouldn't have noticed a one off error but Tribble puncher got the name wrong, what, eight or nine times? You'd be OK with a few paragraphs discussing the merits of Captain Krik against Captain Picrad I assume?

Kahn is a common alternate spelling of the name in the south asian world. I find your comparison false and your approach unnecessarily fussy. He's not doing you any harm.

 

[Nerys Myk]

Destroy the Enterprise? Kill Kirk? Kahn's too tired.

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[Tribble puncher]

Most likely without Kirk, Kahn would never have located the underground tunnel, the Genesis device, or the Genesis cave.

Actually, it was Saavik who figured out the transporter settings..

The young man murdered in the tunnel by Terrell would have lived, ultimately David would have lived.

In time Starfleet would have tracked down the Reliant and either captured it or destroyed it. Kahn's knowledge of starship warfare and tactics seemed minimal at best.

The two Marcus' and the young man would have been rescued, or they could have returned themselves to the space station through their own means.

Terrell and Chekov would have been rescued and treated.

In time the Genesis device might have been tested properly on a planet, instead of a gas cloud, what would happen then is unclear.

Where the Klingons from TSFS would fit into this ...?

They might have beat Starfleet to the research station and discovered Terrell and Chekov, neither of whom knew the location of the "Genesis Torpedo." As long as the three scientists didn't return to the station while the Klingon were there, they would be fine.

There was mention of others on the station being on vacation (?), if they returned to the station while the Klingons were there ...?

I think Khan would have found the Genesis cave on his second trip to Regula, as it was implied he was in a hurry to wrap things up there so he could intercept Enterprise his first time through, I think he would have gone back to the staion and searched it more thoroughly. Yes his knowledge of Starships was Limited, but he and his crew managed to learn to operate Reliant extremely quickly.

I think that either Chekov or Terrell upon learning the destruction of the Enterprise would have been able to fight off the eels similarly to what happened in the Genesis cave, (watching ST2 as an adult, I always wondered if Terrell hadn't turned the phaser on himself, would he simply have collapsed and had the eel leave his body like it did with Chekov?) If they recovered in an isolated area of the Reliant, Khan wouldn't know they were free from the eels control. Then they could if anything, set the ship to destruct...killing themselves but knowing for sure they stopped Khan.

If that didn't happen (Khan simply killed them before they were able to do anything) I'd think that eventually, Joachim (Khans second in command I guess), might have turned on him eventually, because he seemed to be content with just escaping Ceti Alpha and living in peace somewhere. (How much time in universe did elapse between The Space Seed and TWOK?) Was Joachim Khans Son? I remember wondering if Maybe Khan fathered all his "crew" because most of them seemed much Younger than him.

Ultimately I think Terrell or Chekov would have managed to Stop Khan, OR Starfleet would have hunted him down and captured/killed him. The Genesis torpedo would have been safely tested, and probably shifted the balance of power in the Alpha Quadrant in favor of the Federation. The USS Excelsior would have probably exploded on it's first Transwarp test (Transwarp is never mentioned again in the original crew era, can only assume some flaw was discovered that wouldn't have been when they were putting the Excelsior back together again after Scotty sabotaged her.) The Whale Probe would have leveled Earth and killed Millions or Billions, Fed Capital would have been Moved to another Planet. Humanity would go on however, Sybok's Plan would have failed, as he would have had to deal with a fully crewed Federation ship, The Klingons/Feds would have still struck a peace deal I think, and the Enterprise D would be lost with all hands with Soren back in the Nexus.

 

[OtherGene]

Kahn is a common alternate spelling of the name in the south asian world. I find your comparison false and your approach unnecessarily fussy. He's not doing you any harm.

Another post that doesn't further the discussion one bit? If you have no interest in what Tribble puncher has asked then why don't you just toddle off and troll someone else?

 

[OtherGene]

If that didn't happen (Khan simply killed them before they were able to do anything) I'd think that eventually, Joachim (Khans second in command I guess), might have turned on him eventually, because he seemed to be content with just escaping Ceti Alpha and living in peace somewhere. (How much time in universe did elapse between The Space Seed and TWOK?) Was Joachim Khans Son? I remember wondering if Maybe Khan fathered all his "crew" because most of them seemed much Younger than him.

I can't see any of his followers ever betraying Khan but I like the suggestion of his crew being his blood family and, perhaps, the script writers missed a trick there. It would certainly have given the whole thing a greater complexity. That said, on screen it may have diluted the simplicity of Khan verses Kirk.

 

[Smoked Salmon]

Another post that doesn't further the discussion one bit? If you have no interest in what Tribble puncher has asked then why don't you just toddle off and troll someone else?

Ahhh yes, I must be trolling. Yet it was you who decided you needed to make the OP feel like an idiot. Yet I'm the troll.

Dear oh dear.

 

[OtherGene]

Ahhh yes, I must be trolling. Yet it was you who decided you needed to make the OP feel like an idiot. Yet I'm the troll.

Dear oh dear.

That's three posts and no contribution now. @Peach Wookiee Do I have to put up with this?

 

[Smoked Salmon]

That's three posts and no contribution now.

Stop making out I am the arsehole and trying to indirectly brown nose the mods when it was you who tried to derail the thread with your pedantry.

 

[OtherGene]

Stop making out I am the arsehole and trying to indirectly brown nose the mods when it was you who tried to derail the thread with your pedantry.

"brown nose"? Sorry, thought you were an adult, my mistake. As you were.