What if Kahn had destroyed the Enterprise and killed Kirk?

[Scout101]

and the Enterprise D would be lost with all hands with Soren back in the Nexus.

Think you were ok for a little bit, but no way to say that things went on otherwise the same for 100 years after. If you had the probe destroying or severely damaging Earth, you likely lost Picard's family, or drastically changed their history. You altered the history of everything after (pretty large impact with Earth being done), changed crewing and potentially existence of Ent-A/B/C. Almost no shot of the Ent-D being there for the Nexus. Either didn't exist, was destroyed years ago when other captain (or just different Picard) screwed up, etc.

This is why the mirror universe episodes never made sense to me. If the change was near-term, you could sell the original episode being not too different. Saying that everyone still exists, just differently, 100+ years later is nonsense. And then when ENT played with it and implied the change was all the way back at First Contact, it retroactively made the original TOS episode implausible as well...

 

[DonIago]

Well obviously in the MU the Whale Probe is Eeeeeevil and probably spends most of its time stroking its extendable ball goatee and draining power from Borg dodecahedrons.

 

[Timo]

Speaking of "the" mirror universe is probably misleading. Rather, the mechanism of accessing the other side would take our heroes to a different parallel universe every time, one tailored to the specifics of their own reality. And it would certainly not be "our" universe turned on the wrong track by a key event - it would be a different reality where everybody was evil by birth and the first protozoa already invented sadomasochistic bisexual reproduction.

Khan offing Kirk would be conceptually different. But even today, we still lack authentic knowledge on whether Kirk was an exceptionally productive and heroic starship skipper, or merely the one who by happenstance both got the spotlight in a series of documentaries and survived his as such routine adventures. Quite possibly Captain Dunsel took on the job of saving the universe smoothly enough. (It's not as if there really should be a shortage of offworld skippers whose science officers recognize whalesong and whose engineers know how to time travel when the Probe comes calling.)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[somebuddyX]

This is why the mirror universe episodes never made sense to me. If the change was near-term, you could sell the original episode being not too different. Saying that everyone still exists, just differently, 100+ years later is nonsense. And then when ENT played with it and implied the change was all the way back at First Contact, it retroactively made the original TOS episode implausible as well...

It's just a production device so they don't have to build new sets or cast new actors for different characters, since the audience isn't going to care if it's some random they've never seen before. Somehow that universe got linked to the main one. Maybe it was too much red matter at the Big Bang.

 

[Nyotarules]

Speaking of "the" mirror universe is probably misleading. Rather, the mechanism of accessing the other side would take our heroes to a different parallel universe every time, one tailored to the specifics of their own reality. And it would certainly not be "our" universe turned on the wrong track by a key event - it would be a different reality where everybody was evil by birth and the first protozoa already invented sadomasochistic bisexual reproduction.

Khan offing Kirk would be conceptually different. But even today, we still lack authentic knowledge on whether Kirk was an exceptionally productive and heroic starship skipper, or merely the one who by happenstance both got the spotlight in a series of documentaries and survived his as such routine adventures. Quite possibly Captain Dunsel took on the job of saving the universe smoothly enough. (It's not as if there really should be a shortage of offworld skippers whose science officers recognize whalesong and whose engineers know how to time travel when the Probe comes calling.)

Timo Saloniemi

For an organisation like Starfleet to have just one crew and one captain that can save the day then the Federation deserves to be squashed by probes looking for goldfish sounds much more less whale song lol

 

[RColtrane]

Had Khan blown up the Enterprise and killed Kirk, along with it ... we'd never have gotten Shatner's excellent performance in TSFS, where he falls out of his seat, when he learns that David's been killed ...

That was THE SHAT acting at its finest!!

Khan would rule the galaxy and from that moment onward everything that Starfleet did for humanity would be now destroyed or doomed.

 

[trynda1701]

Well obviously in the MU the Whale Probe is Eeeeeevil and probably spends most of its time stroking its extendable ball goatee and draining power from Borg dodecahedrons.

I was going to give this the TrekBBS Internet Phrase of the Week Award...

...the first protozoa already invented sadomasochistic bisexual reproduction.

...till I read the next post!!!

 

[DonIago]

Drat!!! D:

 

[Tribble puncher]

Think you were ok for a little bit, but no way to say that things went on otherwise the same for 100 years after. If you had the probe destroying or severely damaging Earth, you likely lost Picard's family, or drastically changed their history. You altered the history of everything after (pretty large impact with Earth being done), changed crewing and potentially existence of Ent-A/B/C. Almost no shot of the Ent-D being there for the Nexus. Either didn't exist, was destroyed years ago when other captain (or just different Picard) screwed up, etc.

This is why the mirror universe episodes never made sense to me. If the change was near-term, you could sell the original episode being not too different. Saying that everyone still exists, just differently, 100+ years later is nonsense. And then when ENT played with it and implied the change was all the way back at First Contact, it retroactively made the original TOS episode implausible as well...

That's a good point really, I didn't think about that. Kirk being out of the picture would probably give rise to other captains who would rise to the occasions, fictitious sci-fi nature abhors a heroic character vacuum.