I think TWOK reasonably establishes that without medical assistance (and possibly without the kind of talented medical assistance that someone like McCoy can offer), the odds of surviving a Ceti Eel attack are negligible. They did kill a good number of Khan's people, so I don't think Chekov or Terrell would have recovered on their own unless they somehow made it to Sickbay or found a sympathetic person among Khan's crew, and possibly not even then.
What if Kahn had destroyed the Enterprise and killed Kirk?
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I think TWOK reasonably establishes that without medical assistance (and possibly without the kind of talented medical assistance that someone like McCoy can offer), the odds of surviving a Ceti Eel attack are negligible. They did kill a good number of Khan's people, so I don't think Chekov or Terrell would have recovered on their own unless they somehow made it to Sickbay or found a sympathetic person among Khan's crew, and possibly not even then.
You mean that even though the eel had left, Checkov was dying anyway and it was only Bones who kept him alive?
Maybe the Chekov meets Khan scene could use a second glance.
Good point in the McCoy thing, I don't know why but it didn't occur to me that Bones probably saved Chekovs life afterward, it makes more sense really. When Chekovs says in the film, something along the lines of "he thought he controlled us, but he did not, the Captain was strong." Or something to that effect, what do you think Chekov meant? To what degree if any are they able to resist the eels? I really should read the novelisation sometime.
I read that as Chekov parroting what Khan told him to say, honestly. Isn't it less than five minutes later in the film that it's evidenced that Khan is still controlling them, even if his time is running out?
If you pick up a copy of Greg Cox's "To Reign in Hell" you get much more about the Ceti Eels, including a victim's perspective. Fun stuff!
If you pick up a copy of Greg Cox's "To Reign in Hell" you get much more about the Ceti Eels, including a victim's perspective. Fun stuff!
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It seems clear Khan intentionally planted Chekov and Terrell there, and gave them specific orders as to how to "blend in" and then turn on Kirk and crew. They were working for Khan the whole time.
Starfleet would have sent a couple ships (heavy cruisers, destroyers, whatever) after the Reliant, and it would have been quickly destroyed. Everyone would then mourn the loss of the great ship Enterprise and her crew.
Khan was never a cunning and invincible adversary, as many in the fandom like to suggest. He only succeeded against Kirk because he lucked out on that first encounter. It wouldn't happen twice.
Khan was never a cunning and invincible adversary, as many in the fandom like to suggest. He only succeeded against Kirk because he lucked out on that first encounter. It wouldn't happen twice.
I don't need someone holding my hand thru an explanation of when met Chekov and I don't need to hear "Chekov wasn't on the Emterprise when Khan..." --
-- because we have no idea when Chekov came aboard other than after the first Mudd encounter since he hadn't heard of Mudd at the beginning of "I, Mudd"
-- because we have no idea when Chekov came aboard other than after the first Mudd encounter since he hadn't heard of Mudd at the beginning of "I, Mudd"
I agree Khan was a great villian because he was a great villian for Kirk, I still think he would have managed to achieve complete surprise against any other ship in the initial encounter though, does it ever explain in the novel how Khan, even with Terrell and Chekovs help, is able to overpower the entire crew of the Reliant? Starfleet does seem to have a bad record of letting it's ships be overrun, this wasn't the first or last time it happened.
Infraction for trolling, OtherGene.
This is getting personal. Infraction for flaming.
Okay, guys. You've both earned infractions for this. I suggest you both cool it and make your comments to PM, please.
Back to the subject at hand, everyone. Thank you.
We would have gotten a reboot much quicker.
It sort of did happen twice, even if in two different timelines. On pure continuity basis, then, Khan really is cunning and invincible, or at least unconventionally ruthless and capable of fighting from deep underdog position to near-victory, which may be taken to mean the same thing, rules of drama allowing.
However, Khan in the Montalban movie is a has-been and fittingly demonstrates little cunning. It's a fun second take on a character, and there's nothing wrong with it being a different take.
We can always go by stardates and say that he came no later than "Catspaw" (SD 3018), which precedes "Space Seed" (SD 3141).
Whether people aboard at the time of "Mudd's Women" would have heard of Mudd is debatable. Everybody met Khan, shook hands with him and got autographs in intimate areas of their bodies. Mudd was much less of a celebrity or a socialite. Also, Chekov smiles knowingly at the mention of corbomite in "The Deadly Years", suggesting he was aboard during the very first regular episode already.
Timo Saloniemi
Poor old Universe-F. Their version of TWOK has the Enterprise blown to bits by Khan in their first encounter and then we cut to the adventures of the B-Team (Rand, Chapel, Leslie, M'Benga, Sarek and Mudd) who have to go stop Reliant. Directed by Richard Lester.
Space, the final conquest. These are the voyages of the Starship Reliant. Its continuing mission: to destroy strange new worlds, to stamp out new life and new civilizations, to boldly kill where no one has killed before…
To be honest, Kahn...Probably got nothing left in the tank. Has that whole shade of then "then what?" Once he gets his revenge that was built up for years, he's more or less a tad cuckoo with the hatred.
Either he gains some measure of rationality and flee to anywhere in the galaxy with a nasty unintentional wmd as a means to get others to back the Hell off, or he extends his revenge plans to all of Starfleet....And probably gets wrecked by the fleet that really won't stand for the shit he pulled.
Then the damn whale probe comes and Earth is screwed anyway.
Either he gains some measure of rationality and flee to anywhere in the galaxy with a nasty unintentional wmd as a means to get others to back the Hell off, or he extends his revenge plans to all of Starfleet....And probably gets wrecked by the fleet that really won't stand for the shit he pulled.
Then the damn whale probe comes and Earth is screwed anyway.
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